Customs officers killed most of visit to USA

[Sam and Ben 2]

They can have whatever intent they want when they cross the border.

If I can bring up the documents to show that I'm going to cross the border, marry my hunny and then head on back home to my house, kids, career and the like... they don't care that I have any intent to marry. If I plan to stay there and bypass their preferred immigration methods, then they'll want to cause a stink about it.

If they had enough proof to show that they planned to go about the CR1 process, that'd be enough to prove they weren't lying simply to cross the border.

That same proof would, likely, have to hold up once again, should they decide to marry and AOS now.

[Krikit 1,164]

I don't understand the purpose here of cutting their trip short if their evidence was such that allowed them through in the first place.

I'm not quite sure of that, myself. It could be a control-thing on the part of the officer (I'll cut you some slack, but not too much.... just to show you I'm still in control) or it's a way of seeing whether the traveller can be trusted in the future. I'm not a border officer so I don't know their training.

Again, the "intent" isn't in wanting to marry; or even going ahead and getting married. The "intent" is in trying to bypass the immigration process.

Okay, I'm officially confused and will proceed to shut up now.

You can enter the US with the intent to marry. Many people do so when they have destination weddings. The only time it becomes a problem is if, after you marry, you don't intend to leave but you have not gone through the visa process. In effect, you are trying to bypass the immigration process and are entering the country with illegal intent.

[Krikit 1,164]

Yes, Sam's got it.

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

Right right right.

The key is the intention of returning to Canada.

Don't mind me. I'm a little thick this morning.

[Sam and Ben 2]

I'm not quite sure of that, myself. It could be a control-thing on the part of the officer (I'll cut you some slack, but not too much.... just to show you I'm still in control) or it's a way of seeing whether the traveller can be trusted in the future. I'm not a border officer so I don't know their training.

If that's the case, is there any way for them to extend their 'trip' without arousing further suspicion, should they want to go ahead with their original plan?

[Krikit 1,164]

I'm not quite sure of that, myself. It could be a control-thing on the part of the officer (I'll cut you some slack, but not too much.... just to show you I'm still in control) or it's a way of seeing whether the traveller can be trusted in the future. I'm not a border officer so I don't know their training.

If that's the case, is there any way for them to extend their 'trip' without arousing further suspicion, should they want to go ahead with their original plan?

This question was asked not too long ago and I'm pretty sure the answer was that they had to go back. I did find this on the CBP FAQ site, though: I want to extend my stay...

[garnet80 1]

Thank you for all of the replies. The reason we can't just quickly marry is that legally, I am still married. My ex moved out long ago... we only just now had the money to file for the divorce. It's been filed and paid for now, just waiting on the court date. Which is three days after customs is demanding my fiancé return home.

I wonder if he would have a hard time getting back in, say in a couple months? For like a two week visit where we get married? There is absolutely no intention for him to stay after we got married. He would return home and we would start the cr-1 process. Now I guess we give up on the three months. I contacted the travel company I booked his flights with, to see if they can help me change his tickets. We aren't trying to get away with anything... we are trying very hard to do everything right, and legally.

I would be scared for him to say his intent was to marry if he visited again though. :/ It was on the table for this trip if at the end, everything was wonderful. It wasn't a for sure thing... we just wanted to make sure it's what we wanted. I think we are both thinking it IS what we want... which is why I'm asking about if he was to attempt to return in like February.

Thanks again.

[Sam and Ben 2]

Well, as has been stated, simply getting married is absolutely allowed. Realize that, especially due to this recent event, the burden of proof is definitely on your fiance to show that it isn't his intent to stay illegally.

There is always a chance you will be denied. You can attempt to come as prepared as possible and be completely honest to the patrol (as you should be) and you could still be denied. It won't hurt your CR1 petition any if you are denied... just ensure that you don't go with something inflexible as far as your tickets go.

Obviously, the easiest thing at this point would be to marry in Canada. Is that a possibility at all for you two?

[*Snowdrop* 604]

Well, as has been stated, simply getting married is absolutely allowed. Realize that, especially due to this recent event, the burden of proof is definitely on your fiance to show that it isn't his intent to stay illegally.

There is always a chance you will be denied. You can attempt to come as prepared as possible and be completely honest to the patrol (as you should be) and you could still be denied. It won't hurt your CR1 petition any if you are denied... just ensure that you don't go with something inflexible as far as your tickets go.

Obviously, the easiest thing at this point would be to marry in Canada. Is that a possibility at all for you two?

Or as soon as your divorce comes through apply for the K1 visa - you can start getting the paperwork done while you are together and you will have time to plan a lovely wedding in the US together without worrying if it might not happen if he wasn't allowed in. Obviously your fiance won't be able to work straight away unlike the CR1 visa but you were going to manage for these three months without him working so you may be able to manage the same thing when she comes on a K1 visa.

[trailmix 77]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about this.

Details we still don't know are - what did he say to the border person at the point of entry? You can choose not to answer this of course if you are uncomfortable doing so, but what he said may have something to do with whether or not he will be allowed in for another visit.

Also, I would really like to know how the whole email thing came up - did he offer to show them or did they demand that he show them?

What strong proof of ties to Canada did he have with him?

Everything he said was probably noted. If he said "I am going to live with my girlfriend for 3 months and if it works well, after her divorce is final in a month we are getting married" - then they probably read that as intent to immigrate (even though, as krikit has pointed out, that may not technically be the case).

As krikit also mentioned (and provided a link) if you do decide for him to stay, get married and adjust status - you will want to look at attempting to extend his stay.

Edited December 6, 2009 by trailmix

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I think your best plan - with this new information about your divorce date - is that you face up to the unfortunate situation that the border official allowed only a month visit - and that your fiance leave at that date. What he effectively does is he proves he is trustworthy to the border officials - he wanted 3 months but they gave him one month - and he honoured that decision. The next time he goes to the border, he will be equipped with proof of all sorts of ties to Canada and will be going for a shorter visit. He can carry with him evidence that you wish to file either for the K-1 (you can file the I-129f petition any time prior to his next visit and he can carry a copy of that and the receipt with him) or the CR-1 - a prepared I-130 petition that is just waiting for the marriage. I suspect he would be more likely allowed in with proof of a filed K-1 than evidence of intending to file the I-130, however, if his proof of ties to Canada are strong it may work out. Regardless, with your current situation he needs to prove his trusthworthiness to the border and he does that by leaving when his allowed month is up. If you were already divorced or you knew the divorce would be final within his visit time frame, the second option of marrying and applying for AOS would be possible, but now it is only possible if he becomes an illegal alien and does not honour his commitment. That way could be fraught with all sorts of obstacles and may end up causing more grief than it solves.

Good luck to you.

[garnet80 1]

To answer the questions:

Getting married in Canada really isn't an option. I can't miss work and have no paid time off.

What he said at the entry point was just that he was going to visit his girlfriend for 3 months. He said marriage was a possibility, but that we had no date set, and wanted to do these three months to be sure before we put anything in stone (which is the truth).

He did not offer to show his email. The guards asked how many email accounts he had, and then told him to log in to it. (This just seemed so wrong to me.) They would have seen us talk about marriage, but should have also seen just a whole bunch about the cr1 visa.

He really doesn't *have* strong ties to Canada at this point. He lives with his parents to save money (he pays them rent, but there is no official documentation). He was between jobs for this trip, which is why he would have been able to stay so long.

We would really rather do the CR1 than the K1... so I guess all we can do is try in a couple months for him to come back, for a shorter trip. I'm still scared to death for him to say his intent is to marry. He will have a new job by then, so that will be one tie I guess. I wonder if he is flagged now... to get grilled every time he comes through.

It really sucks when you try so hard to do things the right way and it goes like this. I am thankful we got a month though, and we will not take a moment of it for granted.

[trailmix 77]

Yes, it really is too bad, it's great that he told the truth - i'm not saying he wouldn't have - it's just that by being upfront and honest he was at least able to get in to visit you!

There is a very fine line between 'visiting' and 'take up residence' in a country. The border personnel obviously decided to go with the latter and that is why they gave him such a hassle.

Yes, he is probably flagged now and yes he will probably have to go through extra scrutiny each time he enters the U.S.

The email thing is totally out of line. While it seems they can pretty much do anything they like - which they do, I personally find it disturbing that so many VJ people have been harrassed at the border, including one Canadian who ended up with bruises on his face and two people here who have had the entire contents of their wallets photocopied.

It's all very odd.

Edited December 6, 2009 by trailmix

[Revenesque 2]

I see one of two choices. He either goes home before the I-94 expires, or you marry and he stays and adjusts status.

I recall reading somewhere that it's no-no if you go into the US to marry. They'll want to see a K1 visa first. However, if he went down to visit her but on a whim got married, it's allowable (loophole, eh?), but he's still expected to return to Canada and apply for a visa from the outside. A 3-month vacation trip to the US is suspicious (since most employed people get 3-6 weeks vacation) and the assumption is you're attempting to immigrate illegally because you don't have sufficient ties (a job to go back to).

I think his only option is to comply with the I-94.

[Revenesque 2]

There was no intent because they weren't planning on marrying on this trip. They were only going to see if they were compatible. If things worked out they would then file for the visa. However, the CBP Officer effectively changed that set of variables. Now they have a new set.

I think that the border official must have asked himself, "Why wouldn't they have gotten a K-1 visa first?" That, to me, is the big question, since the point of the K-1 is ostensibly to give a couple three months to live as a couple and get married.

Exactly.