Questioning the absurd

[Christi and Ian 24]

If your SO doesn't need to begin working in the US right after entering then go for speed. What I've seen lately the approvals are very close in time. And doesn't everyone love to have choices!?!?

Should I PM you my address to send the "extra money" you have floating around? Actually, send some of it to Sister Len for the Accidental Husband usage.

Best of luck in the journey

Oh believe me, I would be more than happy to share, if it weren't for my 9 year-old daughter who of course, NEEDS a Nintendo Wii, and a trip to Disneyland, and an Xbox 360, and a laptop, and a video camera...etc, etc, etc...

I'm thinking about just handing my paycheck to her and having her just give me an allowance...

On the other hand, she gives great neck massages, and waited on me hand & foot last night while I'm at home suffering with the cold that she so graciously shared with me...

In reality - my ex-husband seriously screwed up his taxes and has been claiming $$ he isn't entitled to for the last 4 years. I filed for back taxes this year and ended up with a refund around $12,000...oh, but won't he be TICKED when he gets that bill from the I.R.S.!!

Edited October 8, 2009 by Christi Wright

[pushbrk 12,569]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

No, the attorney is wrong. USCIS often needs a marriage certificate with the petition but that's not the reason. The reason is to track the name changes for the woman. For example, if the divorce decree shows both the married name and maiden name, no marriage certificate. However, if Mary Jones marries John Smith and her divorce certificate indicates only that Mary and John Jones divorced, there's nothing to connect Mary Jones' birth certificate to Mary Smith, who is now filing a petition. Mary Smith needs to document that her name changed from Jones to Smith. Multiply this for each previous marriage or name change.

Men don't have this problem. Lack of knowledge on one person's part does not make assertions by another, "absurd". It just seems that way until you get the explanation.

[Christi and Ian 24]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

No, the attorney is wrong. USCIS often needs a marriage certificate with the petition but that's not the reason. The reason is to track the name changes for the woman. For example, if the divorce decree shows both the married name and maiden name, no marriage certificate. However, if Mary Jones marries John Smith and her divorce certificate indicates only that Mary and John Jones divorced, there's nothing to connect Mary Jones' birth certificate to Mary Smith, who is now filing a petition. Mary Smith needs to document that her name changed from Jones to Smith. Multiply this for each previous marriage or name change.

Men don't have this problem. Lack of knowledge on one person's part does not make assertions by another, "absurd". It just seems that way until you get the explanation.

That's a really good point, but doesn't explain why my husband also had to provide a marriage certificate to his wife - I guarantee he didn't take her name...

And I STILL think it's absurd...divorce decree...has last name on it...and again, I'm pretty sure that the State of Nevada isn't in the habit of divorcing people who were never married to begin with...

And furthermore, as well as the divorce decree, my birth certificate, my tax forms, my social security card - these all show what my name is or ever has been...

Edited October 8, 2009 by Christi Wright

[Christi and Ian 24]

Side note: Getting married is not the only means of changing one's name...

[pushbrk 12,569]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

No, the attorney is wrong. USCIS often needs a marriage certificate with the petition but that's not the reason. The reason is to track the name changes for the woman. For example, if the divorce decree shows both the married name and maiden name, no marriage certificate. However, if Mary Jones marries John Smith and her divorce certificate indicates only that Mary and John Jones divorced, there's nothing to connect Mary Jones' birth certificate to Mary Smith, who is now filing a petition. Mary Smith needs to document that her name changed from Jones to Smith. Multiply this for each previous marriage or name change.

Men don't have this problem. Lack of knowledge on one person's part does not make assertions by another, "absurd". It just seems that way until you get the explanation.

That's a really good point, but doesn't explain why my husband also had to provide a marriage certificate to his wife - I guarantee he didn't take her name...

And I STILL think it's absurd...divorce decree...has last name on it...and again, I'm pretty sure that the State of Nevada isn't in the habit of divorcing people who were never married to begin with...

And furthermore, as well as the divorce decree, my birth certificate, my tax forms, my social security card - these all show what my name is or ever has been...

It's certainly possible YOUR attorney misunderstands the requirements of the process but now YOU don't.

[Christi and Ian 24]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

No, the attorney is wrong. USCIS often needs a marriage certificate with the petition but that's not the reason. The reason is to track the name changes for the woman. For example, if the divorce decree shows both the married name and maiden name, no marriage certificate. However, if Mary Jones marries John Smith and her divorce certificate indicates only that Mary and John Jones divorced, there's nothing to connect Mary Jones' birth certificate to Mary Smith, who is now filing a petition. Mary Smith needs to document that her name changed from Jones to Smith. Multiply this for each previous marriage or name change.

Men don't have this problem. Lack of knowledge on one person's part does not make assertions by another, "absurd". It just seems that way until you get the explanation.

That's a really good point, but doesn't explain why my husband also had to provide a marriage certificate to his wife - I guarantee he didn't take her name...

And I STILL think it's absurd...divorce decree...has last name on it...and again, I'm pretty sure that the State of Nevada isn't in the habit of divorcing people who were never married to begin with...

And furthermore, as well as the divorce decree, my birth certificate, my tax forms, my social security card - these all show what my name is or ever has been...

It's certainly possible YOUR attorney misunderstands the requirements of the process but now YOU don't.

I will repeat: Marriage is NOT the only means of changing one's name. If a marriage certificate is required simply for this purpose, it's a highly ineffective means of tracking one's names. My ex-husband change the spelling of his last name through "common usage" It's highly unlikely that your reasoning is correct.

Are you an attorney?

[pushbrk 12,569]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

No, the attorney is wrong. USCIS often needs a marriage certificate with the petition but that's not the reason. The reason is to track the name changes for the woman. For example, if the divorce decree shows both the married name and maiden name, no marriage certificate. However, if Mary Jones marries John Smith and her divorce certificate indicates only that Mary and John Jones divorced, there's nothing to connect Mary Jones' birth certificate to Mary Smith, who is now filing a petition. Mary Smith needs to document that her name changed from Jones to Smith. Multiply this for each previous marriage or name change.

Men don't have this problem. Lack of knowledge on one person's part does not make assertions by another, "absurd". It just seems that way until you get the explanation.

That's a really good point, but doesn't explain why my husband also had to provide a marriage certificate to his wife - I guarantee he didn't take her name...

And I STILL think it's absurd...divorce decree...has last name on it...and again, I'm pretty sure that the State of Nevada isn't in the habit of divorcing people who were never married to begin with...

And furthermore, as well as the divorce decree, my birth certificate, my tax forms, my social security card - these all show what my name is or ever has been...

It's certainly possible YOUR attorney misunderstands the requirements of the process but now YOU don't.

I will repeat: Marriage is NOT the only means of changing one's name. If a marriage certificate is required simply for this purpose, it's a highly ineffective means of tracking one's names. My ex-husband change the spelling of his last name through "common usage" It's highly unlikely that your reasoning is correct.

Are you an attorney?

No, I'm not an attorney but I'm right about the reason marriage certificates are required. I'm saying your attorney doesn't understand the requirements of the process. I'm not providing an explanation of all issues surrounding name changes. Name changes must be documented. Marriage certificates can be used to document name changes due to marriage. It's the only reason a past marriage certificate is actually needed. That your attorney asked for ones not needed or misunderstands the reason she's asking for them is her problem. I'm just providing you correct information to do with as you choose.

[Christi and Ian 24]

I think there's been a misunderstanding. My attorney did ask me for copies of the marriage certificates from previous marriages (for both my husband and me) and it was explained to me by the attorney that they were provided "just in case" I got that one processor who required everything down to pictures of my mother's pregnancy induced stretch marks.

Either way, USCIS has them...and I probably won't stop questioning their reasoning, but, what USCIS wants, USCIS gets...

[pushbrk 12,569]

I think there's been a misunderstanding. My attorney did ask me for copies of the marriage certificates from previous marriages (for both my husband and me) and it was explained to me by the attorney that they were provided "just in case" I got that one processor who required everything down to pictures of my mother's pregnancy induced stretch marks.

Either way, USCIS has them...and I probably won't stop questioning their reasoning, but, what USCIS wants, USCIS gets...

You're right to question your attorney's reasoning because it's wrong. Being an attorney doesn't make one "right". USCIS only wants or needs past marriage certificates if name changes are not documented on other official documents. Any other reason given by anybody is simply a misunderstanding. Earlier, you indicated your attorney told you the reason was to document that a marriage happened prior to the divorce. This is absolutely not the reason.

The problem with providing marriage certificates that aren't actually needed is that they are often more difficult and time consuming to obtain than divorce decrees. The result is you file the petition later.

Edited October 8, 2009 by pushbrk

[Christi and Ian 24]

But based on your reasoning, then USCIS should not need a copy of my husband's marriage certificate from his first marriage, being that his name has not changed since birth.

Are you saying that his information would never be asked for, being that there is no name change to document?

[pushbrk 12,569]

But based on your reasoning, then USCIS should not need a copy of my husband's marriage certificate from his first marriage, being that his name has not changed since birth.

Are you saying that his information would never be asked for, being that there is no name change to document?

That's right. Unless there's a marriage related name change to document, no prior marriage certificates are required or ever asked for. When the divorce decree documents the name change, that's good enough too. When they are needed is when only the married name appears on the divorce decree.

[Christi and Ian 24]

But based on your reasoning, then USCIS should not need a copy of my husband's marriage certificate from his first marriage, being that his name has not changed since birth.

Are you saying that his information would never be asked for, being that there is no name change to document?

That's right. Unless there's a marriage related name change to document, no prior marriage certificates are required or ever asked for. When the divorce decree documents the name change, that's good enough too. When they are needed is when only the married name appears on the divorce decree.

So, when my attorney says that this has generated an RFE in the past, she is lying...? Really, I'm just saying...now I don't know if it's at the processor's discretion or what, but this is what I'm being told...

And again, it's really a moot point, being that they already have everything.

[Wait_A_Minute 0]

But based on your reasoning, then USCIS should not need a copy of my husband's marriage certificate from his first marriage, being that his name has not changed since birth.

Are you saying that his information would never be asked for, being that there is no name change to document?

That's right. Unless there's a marriage related name change to document, no prior marriage certificates are required or ever asked for. When the divorce decree documents the name change, that's good enough too. When they are needed is when only the married name appears on the divorce decree.

So, when my attorney says that this has generated an RFE in the past, she is lying...? Really, I'm just saying...now I don't know if it's at the processor's discretion or what, but this is what I'm being told...

And again, it's really a moot point, being that they already have everything.

I didn't have to submit marriage cert from my previous marriage but did turn in the divorce decree. I have seen attorneys ask for documents "just in case". A friend of mine was asked for his wife's (beneficiary's) passport for I-130 which is not required or at least I didn't have to submit..

[MapleLeafBaby 1]

@ DNA exam.

I had to provide copies of both marriage and divorce certificates from my nasty union to the Accidental Husband. Standard procedure

omg loooooovinggggg this!!!! Lol...funniest eereever!

[Christi and Ian 24]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

This, it seems to me, is the most logical argument.

And I understand my attorney's reasoning: This eliminates the possibility of an RFE for lack thereof. Seems she's looking out for our best interest here.

The whole "track the name changes of the woman" thing doesn't make sense and seems rather sexist to me. Being that I don't do well at the whole keeping my mouth shut thing, I'm disposed to arguing this point, even if it's with the Federal Government.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Christi Wright