desperate

[Free Jerusalem 0]

Just for the record, and emphasizing my concern for your situation: The "critical poster" of above is (in my firm opinion) one of the VERY most sensible and level-headed members of VJ. Folks can rarely go wrong by following his advice.

It's tough to be under stress and to receive blunt-sounding advice over the Internet. We are all at a disadvantage because we can't hear a tone of voice or perceive body language. When in doubt about a poster's tone, I picture the person placing his arm around someone in a kindly way and giving advice with the best of intentions. If that method softens my perception of his tone, there's my answer; if it doesn't, that's another matter altogether. But it usually does soften my perception.

Oh, and OP... please create your VJ timeline.

My thoughts exactly! I personally didn't read ANY judgemental or critical tone in Jim's post. But I can most certainly say that judgemental and critical responses to someone trying to help, will generally lead to people not wanting to give advice.

and that is the opposite of what i want. if that was what i wanted, i would not have joined.

[Minya's wife 24]

JimVaPhuong offered sound, non-judgemental advice. He asked a very important questions which you haven't answered. If you were to move back to the US TODAY, where would you live? If you have an apartment or home already then you can use the lease or mortgage for that to show domicile. If you are to live with your parents, you can have them write a letter explaining that you intend to move in with them for X amount of dollars per month until you find a place of your own.

Good luck.

thank you. but i DID answer the questions before, i said that the NVC and USCIS both know i will reside with my parents until we get on our feet. THAT is the address i get my mail at, its not some other persons address as he made it seem like in his first 2 lines. as if i am only USING that address to get what i need. that IS my address and my home ! thank you again though

no, that is someone else's address. It is a family member, but it is not your address. Your I-130 form requires a US mailing address and that is what you provided to USCIS and NVC. The consulate is requiring something entirely different and quite specific from you. They wish to see you prove that you've not 'moved' overseas. They want to see where you plan on bringing your new immigrant husband? Unless the USC (US citizen) is living and working overseas, the assumption is that he/she havs an established primary residence (with bills, and job, etc.) where the immigrant spouse will reside once here. Saying that you will both be staying at your parents house is very much what the consulate wants to avoid. They want to see that if you're sponsoring an immigrant then you have established how that immigrant will be supported upon his entry to the states.

What JimVaPhuong said is quite true....it is more than likely that the visa will not be issued unless you satisfy the consulate request of proving primary domicile in the US. That is what they are asking for, not US bank statements or showing you have money in the bank.

This may entail you coming back to the states and re-establishing your residence here; renting/buying a home, having utilities in your name, etc. and sending those in to the consulate before they will issue the visa to your husband.

Have you e-mailed the consulate and asked them for clarification as to what they men by evidence of USC's primary residence....i.e. what kind of documentary proof they're willing to accept?

[wowswift 3]

What JimVaPhuong said is correct, and those are some of the things I had to show to prove domicile. Have your parents sign a lease with you. I did with my mother (even though I thought it was a bit crazy, that's what they asked for). If you have a driver's license with that address on it, copy that and send it in. I had a US bank account and sent in some statements from that. I showed that I voted and sent copies of the voting guide thing they sent with the address on it too. And I know some people got moving quotes showing that they are intending to move back to the US. You have to prove to them that you are returning with your husband. Anything you can think of to show this, give it to them.

[Minya's wife 24]

What JimVaPhuong said is correct, and those are some of the things I had to show to prove domicile. Have your parents sign a lease with you. I did with my mother (even though I thought it was a bit crazy, that's what they asked for). If you have a driver's license with that address on it, copy that and send it in. I had a US bank account and sent in some statements from that. I showed that I voted and sent copies of the voting guide thing they sent with the address on it too. And I know some people got moving quotes showing that they are intending to move back to the US. You have to prove to them that you are returning with your husband. Anything you can think of to show this, give it to them.

Its not so much that she's returning with her husband....the consulate's chief concern is that the new immigrant not be a 'public charge' upon his/her immigration. So asking the USC to prove US domicile is in line with satisfying that concern.

[wowswift 3]

What JimVaPhuong said is correct, and those are some of the things I had to show to prove domicile. Have your parents sign a lease with you. I did with my mother (even though I thought it was a bit crazy, that's what they asked for). If you have a driver's license with that address on it, copy that and send it in. I had a US bank account and sent in some statements from that. I showed that I voted and sent copies of the voting guide thing they sent with the address on it too. And I know some people got moving quotes showing that they are intending to move back to the US. You have to prove to them that you are returning with your husband. Anything you can think of to show this, give it to them.

Its not so much that she's returning with her husband....the consulate's chief concern is that the new immigrant not be a 'public charge' upon his/her immigration. So asking the USC to prove US domicile is in line with satisfying that concern.

True but she probably has a co-sponsor and even the the I-864 you either prove that you maintained your US domicile, or you have to prove that you plan on returning either before or at the same time as the non-USC. when we were interviewed, she wanted to be sure i wasn't staying in canada, and just letting my husband go by himself, which i thought was weird since i had no status in canada, but sent in my pile of documents and that was it.

Edited September 17, 2009 by wowswift

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Ok, just to clarify a few things...

I did not mean my post to sound judgmental at all. I was simply laying out the facts, as the US government sees and requires them to be. The fundamental questions was Do you have a domicile in the US?. If you're planning on staying with your parents, then you likely do not. Your parents, on the other hand, do have a domicile.

Did I think you sounded desperate? Well, yeah! After all, that was the title of your thread!

The suggestion to have your parents write you a lease is not bad, but it would have to show that you were effectively leasing living space from them while you were gone. Living as a guest in your parent's home would generally NOT be considered having a domicile in the US. It would be considered exactly what it is - a guest in somebody else's domicile.

At this point, whatever you provide is not likely to prove that you have maintained a domicile during your absence from the US. Don't panic! It's not a crisis! You are allowed to re-establish domicile in order to qualify as a sponsor. All you have to do is come back to the US and rent an apartment. If you're short on cash, then have your parents help you out. As long as your name is on the lease and the bills, then it's your domicile! In order for this route to work you usually must return to the US before the immigrant you are sponsoring. Once you've returned and established a domicile, you can go back and accompany your husband on his trip here.

Also, having a domicile is not directly related to proving your husband won't become a public charge, although it is very much related to the affidavit of support. The point is that the government can't enforce the affidavit if you aren't actually living in the US, so what you are proving is that you were abroad temporarily, but continued to have your primary residence in the US. If you give up your primary residence, you are allowed to re-establish it in order to qualify.

Pretty easy!

[Dakine 26]

I agree with Jim. Also it's best to get "all your ducks in row" at first instead of having to do so in AR.

[Free Jerusalem 0]

Ok, just to clarify a few things...

I did not mean my post to sound judgmental at all. I was simply laying out the facts, as the US government sees and requires them to be. The fundamental questions was Do you have a domicile in the US?. If you're planning on staying with your parents, then you likely do not. Your parents, on the other hand, do have a domicile.

Did I think you sounded desperate? Well, yeah! After all, that was the title of your thread!

The suggestion to have your parents write you a lease is not bad, but it would have to show that you were effectively leasing living space from them while you were gone. Living as a guest in your parent's home would generally NOT be considered having a domicile in the US. It would be considered exactly what it is - a guest in somebody else's domicile.

At this point, whatever you provide is not likely to prove that you have maintained a domicile during your absence from the US. Don't panic! It's not a crisis! You are allowed to re-establish domicile in order to qualify as a sponsor. All you have to do is come back to the US and rent an apartment. If you're short on cash, then have your parents help you out. As long as your name is on the lease and the bills, then it's your domicile! In order for this route to work you usually must return to the US before the immigrant you are sponsoring. Once you've returned and established a domicile, you can go back and accompany your husband on his trip here.

Also, having a domicile is not directly related to proving your husband won't become a public charge, although it is very much related to the affidavit of support. The point is that the government can't enforce the affidavit if you aren't actually living in the US, so what you are proving is that you were abroad temporarily, but continued to have your primary residence in the US. If you give up your primary residence, you are allowed to re-establish it in order to qualify.

Pretty easy!

OMG, it is a crisis for me because i cant stand t be away from my husband. cheesy right? honestly the thought of me leaving before him kills us both. thank you for your reply, but i have some things to ask you if you dont mind.

1. would my parents writing a letter stating my name and my husband name be good proof? like if they sign and add their phone numbers and say they are willing to have us stay with them?

2.i was in college and didn't work, so my affidavit of support wasn't good enough and we had someone help us out and fill an affidavit of support out. does that mean i will have to go reside with them or can i send in the letter my parents sent me?

3. my name is on my parents water bill... is that any good to send in?

4.credit cards ... should i not even bother?

5.college transcripts?

6. do you think its true what minyas wife said about saying i will be staying at my parents house and that the consulate wants to avoid that? why is it such a bad thing if we will do that for a few months?

sorry for the headache...

[Darnell 8,478]

Are you needing to have utility bills in your and your spouse's names?, to show some type of proof?

If that's the case, then:

1. sign up for a Vonage Account online, have the account in BOTH of your names.

2. sign up for Dish Network or Direct TV online, have the account in BOTH of your names.

3. purchase a cell phone online, set up the account in BOTH of your names (have it shipped to your parents address).

I guess I don't understand what you're chasing after under Waivers/Administratve Processes forum.

[Darnell 8,478]

Also - your parents can write up a lease document or rental agreement with both of your names.

[WhidbeyGirl 1]

OMG, it is a crisis for me because i cant stand t be away from my husband. cheesy right? honestly the thought of me leaving before him kills us both.

Really? First off.... breathe. This journey has enough drama, why would you give yourself added drama? You are causing yourself more stress and pain. No one ever said life or this process was going to be easy. Pull yourself up off the ground by your bootstraps girl, dig your heels in and do what you need to do to get your husband to the US.

I'd venture a guess and say probably over 90% of those on this forum do not have the privilege you have to be with your SO, so trying to find sympathy here will be hard to come by. It doesn't mean that the rest of love our SO's any less or that it hurts any less to leave. It means we just do what we have to do to get through. I know I am VERY blessed to be going to visit my husband for the 3rd time in 9 months, but yes I cry when leaving him each time, then I get home and life continues and we make due knowing this will all end.

This all to let you know you CAN do it, you WILL live through it - sometimes doing the hard things in life lead to MUCH MUCH more appreciation of the easier times.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

1. would my parents writing a letter stating my name and my husband name be good proof? like if they sign and add their phone numbers and say they are willing to have us stay with them?

Ok, here's the thing. Either you had a domicile before you left, and you kept it while you were gone (i.e., temporarily outside the US), or you gave up your domicile, and you now need to re-establish domicile in the US. What you are suggesting is the latter - re-establishing domicile in the US.

To re-establish domicile in the US you must:

1: Return to the US.

2: Establish a primary place of residence.

It just isn't possible to establish a primary residence if you've never technically resided there. Do you see what I'm saying? Your primary residence is where you live. The requirement of the I-864 is that your primary residence must be in the US. Until you've lived there, even for a day, it's not your primary residence.

As far as the letter from your parents, it would be better if they wrote you a lease. A letter offering to allow you and your husband to stay with them sounds like they are sponsoring both of you. In fact, it would have been better if they'd written you a lease before you left, so that you'd have a domicile the entire time. It would be illegal for them to provide you with a back dated lease, which leaves you in a tough spot.

There's some information about the domicile requirement on the State Department website:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/in....html#_Domicile

As it says, it's complicated, and has to be decided on a case by case basis.

2.i was in college and didn't work, so my affidavit of support wasn't good enough and we had someone help us out and fill an affidavit of support out. does that mean i will have to go reside with them or can i send in the letter my parents sent me?

No. You do not need to live with your co-sponsors. However, they must ALSO meet the domicile requirement.

3. my name is on my parents water bill... is that any good to send in?

Yes, that would help, if you intend to try to use your parent's home as your domicile.

4.credit cards ... should i not even bother?

Credit cards prove you've got credit and debt. They don't prove residence. However, the address on the statements can help prove domicile, if the address is the same one you will claim is your domicile.

5.college transcripts?

Not of any particular use.

6. do you think its true what minyas wife said about saying i will be staying at my parents house and that the consulate wants to avoid that? why is it such a bad thing if we will do that for a few months?

sorry for the headache...

It might be a problem if you weren't married, and were applying for a K1 visa. In that event, the consulate can make up any rules they want about meeting the "public charge" requirement. However, since you're applying for a CR1 then you are submitting the I-864 affidavit of support, which has very explicit rules and requirements. The consulate doesn't have much leeway in making the decision. They might not LIKE the fact that you have to live with your parents, but if you've met the requirements of the I-864 with your co-sponsor, then there isn't much they can say or do about it.

[MRStee 19]

Just for the record, and emphasizing my concern for your situation: The "critical poster" of above is (in my firm opinion) one of the VERY most sensible and level-headed members of VJ. Folks can rarely go wrong by following his advice.

It's tough to be under stress and to receive blunt-sounding advice over the Internet. We are all at a disadvantage because we can't hear a tone of voice or perceive body language. When in doubt about a poster's tone, I picture the person placing his arm around someone in a kindly way and giving advice with the best of intentions. If that method softens my perception of his tone, there's my answer; if it doesn't, that's another matter altogether. But it usually does soften my perception.

Oh, and OP... please create your VJ timeline.

Well said

[wowswift 3]

As I said before, you don't have to return to the US before your husband, I didn't do it, I know trailmix didn't do it (we both had to prove domicle, though trailmix's was at the NVC level and mine the consulate but trailmix also never lived in the US but was a citizen). On the I-864, it says this:

C. You intend in good faith to reestablish your domicile in the United States no later than the date of the intending immigrant's admission or adjustment of status.You must submit proof that you have taken concrete steps to establish you will be domiciled in the United States at a timeno later than the date of the intending immigrant's admission or adjustment of status. Concrete steps might include accepting a job in the United States, signing a lease or purchasing a residence in the United States, or registering children in U.S. schools. Please attach proof of the steps youhave taken to establish domicile as described above.

or you're proving that you maintained domicile. You don't have much to prove that you maintained it, so find a lease on the internet and make it your own and have your parents sign it, this is what I did, I put the date as when we "planned" to return. Trailmix has a few great posts about domicile that I used to fix my issue. Find those, they are usually in the DCF forum since they have the most domicile issue.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

As I said before, you don't have to return to the US before your husband, I didn't do it, I know trailmix didn't do it (we both had to prove domicle, though trailmix's was at the NVC level and mine the consulate but trailmix also never lived in the US but was a citizen). On the I-864, it says this:

C. You intend in good faith to reestablish your domicile in the United States no later than the date of the intending immigrant's admission or adjustment of status.You must submit proof that you have taken concrete steps to establish you will be domiciled in the United States at a timeno later than the date of the intending immigrant's admission or adjustment of status. Concrete steps might include accepting a job in the United States, signing a lease or purchasing a residence in the United States, or registering children in U.S. schools. Please attach proof of the steps youhave taken to establish domicile as described above.

or you're proving that you maintained domicile. You don't have much to prove that you maintained it, so find a lease on the internet and make it your own and have your parents sign it, this is what I did, I put the date as when we "planned" to return. Trailmix has a few great posts about domicile that I used to fix my issue. Find those, they are usually in the DCF forum since they have the most domicile issue.

Good find!

After reading this, I hunted the USCIS site for corroboration, and found a memorandum issued in June 2006 that basically says the same thing. That'll teach me for reading articles written by lawyers (actually, no it won't!).

Oh, here's the memorandum. The section on domicile is on page 6. It goes into a little more detail than the I-864 instructions:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/AffSuppAFM062706.pdf

Basically, it says that once you've convinced the CO that you've taken the necessary steps to establish domicile when you return, that you actually have to establish domicile (i.e., take up residence) by the time the immigrant arrives at the POE, UNLESS (big 'unless') the USC arrives at the POE at the same time as the immigrant, in which case it's presumed that the USC has met their obligation to return and establish domicile. I guess the attorney missed the 'unless' in his article.