Behavior you (USC man) find odd

[visaveteran 1]

They were merged because the Belarus and Ukraine people hung out here all the time anyway, so the change was requested to reflect the true makeup of the Forum Formerly Known As the Russia Forum.

I see. No problem for me. I am never one to crash a party and I see that Visa Veteran is correct on this point, at least in this forum.

When I asked Ewok to change the forum name to include Belarus and Ukraine, it was for both of the reasons stated above. I thought that (after asking for feedback from the community here) that there were enough cultural similarities amongst those three countries that there should be a change in the forum to reflect that affinity. Since most VJ members with Eastern European SOs used this as their home forum anyway it seemed appropriate to make it official.

Now, (sort of). My wife falls somewhere between the two described above. She wears her ring on the left, because (her words) she married an American, and wants to conform in some ways to the culture she lives in. Because she isn't working now, she does most of the cooking, and I definitely eat better and healthier than I ever did before - including loads of fish and soup. Because I finally have her convinced that she looks great without makeup too, she sometimes goes without it, and will wear less most days (unless we are meeting other Eastern Europeans - they always get the full treatment). She wears jeans and casual clothes most of the time because I do.I pay a service to do the serious cleaning, and Vika definitely does not dress me, nor do I want that.

If I follow your logic in merging the RUB, then why not include all FSU countries under one forum? Why only the three? As for the Ukraine, the country is very different than Russia. You don't need visas to go there and it has become a different society. But the Crimea area is more pro Russian, while other areas are not. It's very hard to lump the country into a category. Maybe it should stand alone?

I always encourage my wife to use make-up and dress nicely because it is her way and I like the energy she puts into looking great. My wife is truly beautiful and could easily walk around without make-up and nice clothes and still turn heads, but I want the American women to see what a feminine, classic beauty looks like..because i think they've forgotten...and the men too. If men what to downgrade their wives intentions to look great, so be it. But it is only following the tenets of the feminists, who despise old school beauty.

I love my wife to dress me...nothing quite like it. Unless it is to be "undressed." I deserve it. And the more she treats me like a king, the more I act like one.

You really should stick to your sermons on Russia based on your 6 visits to Russia before commenting on Ukraine. Ukraine is heavily influenced by Russian culture far beyond the Crimea, 93% Russian in Donetsk Oblast, 84% in Odessa Oblast, 87% in Kharkov Oblast. There are some differences but I do not like to deal in broad generalities. If I did I would say Ukrainian women are milder tempered and cleaner. But how can I judge after meeting, living with and working with only a few thousand every day?

One thing is certain. I do not need to encourage my wife to wear make-up, she devotes herself to her family and husband and I put my own socks on. To try and say all Russian or Ukrainian women are the same is a fool's errand. Yes, they have generalities, yes they have different ideas about male and female roles, yes they are more beautiful (percentage speaking) and despite my jokes of Dr. Finetush's secret laboratory in the Caucasus Mountians, they are individuals all. I can give you a list very long of Ukrainian women I did not want to marry! I can slso say that after living there, no American woman could interest me at all. Being American is a deal breaker for me.

Again, I do not like to generalize. If I did, I would say your wife is from a small village. There is a far bigger difference in culture between city and village people in Ukraine and Russia than even between the countries or even between THIS country and thiers. Alla is from a big city, worked in big cities all over the FSU (in fact was a representative for a large Moscow based firm, so it seems they thought this Ukrainian woman was worthy of representing them for millions in business every year...imagine that!) Her lifestyle changed very little when moving here. No more so than an American moving from a big city to a rural island, Our flat in Donetsk is pretty much furnished like our house in Vermont, no big surprise...same decorator.

I'll own I know very little about the Ukraine from personal experience. All of my views of that country are from talking with Russians, American men who have talked about their experiences there, and what I've read. I was warned early on in my research into finding a Russian bride that the Ukraine was the female scam capital of eastern Europe. I also heard much of the country is radioactive from Chernobyl, so I lost interest. The nuclear issue would be enough for me to avoid it and I would not want my family to spend too much time there. The same is true for Belarus and parts of western Russia. And, in fact, a reason I would never want my children or wife to spend too much time in any of those countries. And a great reason to never consider living or spending long periods of time in that whole RUB area. I don't want to find my wife glowing in the dark when I come to bed.

I think it is a fair statement to say there is some pretty serious anti-Russian sentiment in parts of the Ukraine, and people from Russian feel superior to Ukrainians. That could be a defining difference in the two countries. Not really a mutual admiration society. Another reason I think combining them in one forum is odd.

I'd love to know how you determined Ukraine women are cleaner. Maybe you could elaborate? This could be very interesting. Underwear check? Soap sales?

I do agree that city women are different than village women...and not necessarily in a positive way...this feeling coming from personal experience. I wanted a woman who REALLY wanted to live in the USA and would be giving up little by leaving her native land. That scenario seemed best for long term success.

We totally agree on American women. Amen.

[baron555 934]

I'll own I know very little about the Ukraine from personal experience. All of my views of that country are from talking with Russians, American men who have talked about their experiences there, and what I've read. I was warned early on in my research into finding a Russian bride that the Ukraine was the female scam capital of eastern Europe. I also heard much of the country is radioactive from Chernobyl, so I lost interest. The nuclear issue would be enough for me to avoid it and I would not want my family to spend too much time there. The same is true for Belarus and parts of western Russia. And, in fact, a reason I would never want my children or wife to spend too much time in any of those countries. And a great reason to never consider living or spending long periods of time in that whole RUB area. I don't want to find my wife glowing in the dark when I come to bed.

I think it is a fair statement to say there is some pretty serious anti-Russian sentiment in parts of the Ukraine, and people from Russian feel superior to Ukrainians. That could be a defining difference in the two countries. Not really a mutual admiration society. Another reason I think combining them in one forum is odd.

I'd love to know how you determined Ukraine women are cleaner. Maybe you could elaborate? This could be very interesting. Underwear check? Soap sales?

I do agree that city women are different than village women...and not necessarily in a positive way...this feeling coming from personal experience. I wanted a woman who REALLY wanted to live in the USA and would be giving up little by leaving her native land. That scenario seemed best for long term success.

We totally agree on American women. Amen.

I don't have much to offer. This Man really knows his stuff!

[SuperDuper! 230]

Yes, wise to avoid those areas of Chernobyl fallout. Larger % of birth defects. And, you might find your wife glowing in the dark at bedtime!

[Brad and Vika 129]

Your comments about other men's wives is interesting...are you bisexual?

Actually, most women on the whole can appreciate and comment upon another woman's attractiveness without feeling awkward about it....it doesn't make us bisexual

It's one thing for a woman to say another woman is attractive, or her dress or hair looks nice or whatever...it's something else to say she's "hot." I think a lot of American women are bisexual or bi-curious. I dated a number or them when I was still "hitting my head against the wall" and trying to find an suitable American wife.

Just curious VV, but why all the hostility? Although this is the internet, we do try (usually) to get along with each other. Are you having a laugh, trying to irritate? I do that myself sometimes. Hopefully, you aren't as torqued out as you sound

I don't know how long you've been on this forum but I lurked for a LONG time before jumping in and I've seen some nasty, knock down, drag out internet battle royals on this forum. Some of it comes right at you, and some of it comes in sideways.

We all come to the table with some gold to offer and also some shadow. I'm no exception...nor or you. Some like to say with the darkness, there can be no light. I agree. So maybe a little shadow is helpful to get some of us back into the light.

With that said, I happen to believe men in the USA have grown soft, weak and confused about being "fierce" men. I judge men need to ultimately get in touch with what some masculine psyche experts call, The Wild Man." He's not exactly a "warrior" but he has a determination, a fierceness, a "no bull" view of the world. These were the men who won WWII for example.

Today, we have a preponderance of nice boys who were raised by their mothers or with a weak or detached father. The mother will always want to keep her nice, polite, soft little boy, so the boy grows up to be a 50 year-old nice boy. He never steps up to adult masculinity. He never is shown his fierce side.

So, today, when all these "nice boys" meet up with a fierce and strong man, they find themselves uncomfortable with the presence of an authentic "wild man." They will dislike him, fear him, mistrust him...but deep down they will envy him.

So, maybe you should not ask me why I'm so "hostile", maybe you should ask yourself why you're so bothered by another man's comments?

Well, I guess that answers the question... er... sort of. Not having a laugh, just attacking any one who questions you, you BIG, STRONG, WILDMAN YOU!!! I am SOO envious and threatened by your internet masculinity, your virtual power, your prescient knowledge of my childhood! I bow down, oh loincloth clad internet god.

Now the next question is - can you take a joke without attacking some more? More to follow I would bet.

You are sometimes funny, I will say...for whatever that's worth.

I see the current forum, including you, prefers light, silly and simple when it comes to exchanges. I miss some of the previous posters like Bobalouie, Turboguy and Kazan Tiger to name a few. Maybe they left for a good reason?

If you use trigger words like "hostile" and "attack" you should expect a little push back, not laughs. BTW, I've done about 18 years worth of education, study and experiential personal work on the issue of men in modern America. I would be comfortable calling myself an expert. I think men have become too good at making jokes or acting silly, and too weak at being honest, strong, emotionally literate men.

And when I look at the state of things in the world, I ask, what's so funny?

First, I appreciate the balanced response. I do not intend to "trigger" you, just tease a bit. I don't know you at all, but many of your posts are sharp and hostile sounding. I think that stuff is uncalled for, just like the goofy "you should do more research" type posts I see so much. Light is usually good IMHO, critical usually isn't good (not productive either). And to answer your question above, those guys left after their wives got green cards, as many do, I presume because they outgrew the need for the forum.

And thanks for letting us know that you had a sense-of-humor-ectomy. Those are reversable now with therapy

[HannahP 119]

I'll own I know very little about the Ukraine from personal experience. All of my views of that country are from talking with Russians, American men who have talked about their experiences there, and what I've read. I was warned early on in my research into finding a Russian bride that the Ukraine was the female scam capital of eastern Europe. I also heard much of the country is radioactive from Chernobyl, so I lost interest. The nuclear issue would be enough for me to avoid it and I would not want my family to spend too much time there. The same is true for Belarus and parts of western Russia. And, in fact, a reason I would never want my children or wife to spend too much time in any of those countries. And a great reason to never consider living or spending long periods of time in that whole RUB area. I don't want to find my wife glowing in the dark when I come to bed.

I think it is a fair statement to say there is some pretty serious anti-Russian sentiment in parts of the Ukraine, and people from Russian feel superior to Ukrainians. That could be a defining difference in the two countries. Not really a mutual admiration society. Another reason I think combining them in one forum is odd.

I'd love to know how you determined Ukraine women are cleaner. Maybe you could elaborate? This could be very interesting. Underwear check? Soap sales?

I do agree that city women are different than village women...and not necessarily in a positive way...this feeling coming from personal experience. I wanted a woman who REALLY wanted to live in the USA and would be giving up little by leaving her native land. That scenario seemed best for long term success.

We totally agree on American women. Amen.

I don't have much to offer. This Man really knows his stuff!

I know!

I mean, it's like, how many relationships has he had?

How many do you have to have before you lose at wimmins?

Or before you accuse your wimmins of having the faults that you have?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

They were merged because the Belarus and Ukraine people hung out here all the time anyway, so the change was requested to reflect the true makeup of the Forum Formerly Known As the Russia Forum.

I see. No problem for me. I am never one to crash a party and I see that Visa Veteran is correct on this point, at least in this forum.

When I asked Ewok to change the forum name to include Belarus and Ukraine, it was for both of the reasons stated above. I thought that (after asking for feedback from the community here) that there were enough cultural similarities amongst those three countries that there should be a change in the forum to reflect that affinity. Since most VJ members with Eastern European SOs used this as their home forum anyway it seemed appropriate to make it official.

Now, (sort of). My wife falls somewhere between the two described above. She wears her ring on the left, because (her words) she married an American, and wants to conform in some ways to the culture she lives in. Because she isn't working now, she does most of the cooking, and I definitely eat better and healthier than I ever did before - including loads of fish and soup. Because I finally have her convinced that she looks great without makeup too, she sometimes goes without it, and will wear less most days (unless we are meeting other Eastern Europeans - they always get the full treatment). She wears jeans and casual clothes most of the time because I do.I pay a service to do the serious cleaning, and Vika definitely does not dress me, nor do I want that.

If I follow your logic in merging the RUB, then why not include all FSU countries under one forum? Why only the three? As for the Ukraine, the country is very different than Russia. You don't need visas to go there and it has become a different society. But the Crimea area is more pro Russian, while other areas are not. It's very hard to lump the country into a category. Maybe it should stand alone?

I always encourage my wife to use make-up and dress nicely because it is her way and I like the energy she puts into looking great. My wife is truly beautiful and could easily walk around without make-up and nice clothes and still turn heads, but I want the American women to see what a feminine, classic beauty looks like..because i think they've forgotten...and the men too. If men what to downgrade their wives intentions to look great, so be it. But it is only following the tenets of the feminists, who despise old school beauty.

I love my wife to dress me...nothing quite like it. Unless it is to be "undressed." I deserve it. And the more she treats me like a king, the more I act like one.

You really should stick to your sermons on Russia based on your 6 visits to Russia before commenting on Ukraine. Ukraine is heavily influenced by Russian culture far beyond the Crimea, 93% Russian in Donetsk Oblast, 84% in Odessa Oblast, 87% in Kharkov Oblast. There are some differences but I do not like to deal in broad generalities. If I did I would say Ukrainian women are milder tempered and cleaner. But how can I judge after meeting, living with and working with only a few thousand every day?

One thing is certain. I do not need to encourage my wife to wear make-up, she devotes herself to her family and husband and I put my own socks on. To try and say all Russian or Ukrainian women are the same is a fool's errand. Yes, they have generalities, yes they have different ideas about male and female roles, yes they are more beautiful (percentage speaking) and despite my jokes of Dr. Finetush's secret laboratory in the Caucasus Mountians, they are individuals all. I can give you a list very long of Ukrainian women I did not want to marry! I can slso say that after living there, no American woman could interest me at all. Being American is a deal breaker for me.

Again, I do not like to generalize. If I did, I would say your wife is from a small village. There is a far bigger difference in culture between city and village people in Ukraine and Russia than even between the countries or even between THIS country and thiers. Alla is from a big city, worked in big cities all over the FSU (in fact was a representative for a large Moscow based firm, so it seems they thought this Ukrainian woman was worthy of representing them for millions in business every year...imagine that!) Her lifestyle changed very little when moving here. No more so than an American moving from a big city to a rural island, Our flat in Donetsk is pretty much furnished like our house in Vermont, no big surprise...same decorator.

I'll own I know very little about the Ukraine from personal experience. All of my views of that country are from talking with Russians, American men who have talked about their experiences there, and what I've read. I was warned early on in my research into finding a Russian bride that the Ukraine was the female scam capital of eastern Europe. I also heard much of the country is radioactive from Chernobyl, so I lost interest. The nuclear issue would be enough for me to avoid it and I would not want my family to spend too much time there. The same is true for Belarus and parts of western Russia. And, in fact, a reason I would never want my children or wife to spend too much time in any of those countries. And a great reason to never consider living or spending long periods of time in that whole RUB area. I don't want to find my wife glowing in the dark when I come to bed.

I think it is a fair statement to say there is some pretty serious anti-Russian sentiment in parts of the Ukraine, and people from Russian feel superior to Ukrainians. That could be a defining difference in the two countries. Not really a mutual admiration society. Another reason I think combining them in one forum is odd.

I'd love to know how you determined Ukraine women are cleaner. Maybe you could elaborate? This could be very interesting. Underwear check? Soap sales?

I do agree that city women are different than village women...and not necessarily in a positive way...this feeling coming from personal experience. I wanted a woman who REALLY wanted to live in the USA and would be giving up little by leaving her native land. That scenario seemed best for long term success.

We totally agree on American women. Amen.

I cannot tell you if it is a scam capital. I never used an online service. Not that I am making any judgements, I don't. But the internet is the place where the scams occur and I never met a woman, American or Ukrainian by way of the internet. I will say that the vast majority of Ukrainian women are very sincere. I would suspect the majority of scams are pulled by men posing as women. Again, I have -0- experience with the internet. I had hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian women outside my door (and a smaller number inside my door) and had no need for the internet services. I did meet and date a few that were clearly looking for a good night out, a nice dinner, drinks, etc. on the guy. we they scamming me? maybe. Who cares? I had a good time to. As you can imagine (if you know ANYTHING about Ukraine or Russia) it was no problem for a decent looking mid-40s guy from the USA with a US salary, overseas bonus and living expenses paid in a very nice downtown flat...plus a private driver, to meet and date women. How many? In a week? A month? Any day I wanted.

Again I do not like generalizations. I noted that only if forced would I make such comparisons. I have been to many dozens of people's personal homes in Ukraine and Russia, maybe more than a hundred. Who counts? I still have many good friends there and we correspond daily with at least a few of them. They are very social and very hospitable people in my experience and I was forever being invited to one person's flat or another. Every Ukrainian flat I was ever in was spotlessly clean (quite in contrast to the exterior to be sure...even suprisingly so) and all the Russian flats I was in were considerably less so. That is what I meant by clean. I never noticed any difference in underwear checks and I wasn't referring to personal hygiene to which I have no complaints about either. Underwear is equally clean. In my experience Ukrainian homes are quite a bit cleaner. If I didn't know her culture I would think Alla is borderline OC about cleaning...not that I complain, nothing wrong with a spotless home. I suppose if I went to several dozen more Russian homes maybe the poll could swing, maybe not. I also have enough experience with enough women and men (in everyday life) to form the opinion that Russians seem more hot tempered than Ukrainians, but my experience is limited to mostly city people. Our son, who has now spent 3 years in a university in Moscow, with 2 more to go, has said, definitely, he is going for a Ukrainian wife. I can't fault his taste.

As far as village women and city women, yes a village girl from Russia or Ukraine is going to be much more happy in America, or more easily happy. Things like indoor kitchens, private bathtubs and toilets for only one family are very appealing if you never had them. Reliable electricty, drinkable water and heat round out the benefits. AC? What is that? OMG! On the other hand, my wife is not with me because she saw it as a way to improve her lot in life. We could live just as easily in Donetsk and miss very little in creature comforts. In fact she was doing very well before and certainly didn't "need" me or any other man and she has enough cash stashed around to buy a plane ticket to Kiev any time she wants. If she is there when I get home, or drives herself home from wherever she was today...it is by her choice. She could just as easily abandon her own car at JFK and be in Kiev in the morning. A train to our flat in Donetsk, and she would be sleeping on comfy sheets again.

[baron555 934]

Well then Gary..... there is something that you offer to her that keeps her coming back to you?

Love?

Substinance?

Cooking?

Syrup?

Fish?

Long......?

There must be something about you?

What is it about Brad?.............

You could write an eBook and make a fortune!

Edited November 17, 2009 by baron555

[SuperDuper! 230]

Well then Gary..... there is something that you offer to her that keeps her coming back to you?

Love?

Substinance?

Cooking?

Syrup?

Fish?

Long......?

There must be something about you?

What is it about Brad?.............

Edited November 17, 2009 by Hopp

[Brad and Vika 129]

A quick response to some of the posts above. First, Gary is 100% right about the creature comforts. They are nice to have, but most Ukrainians I know are very happy where they are (in Ukraine), and would not move for AC, or anything like that. I hope we can all acknowledge that when those kinds of things drive a relationship there is a huge problem somewhere.

Secondly, most of Ukraine is definitely not radioactive. There is an exclusion zone around Chernobyl, and radiation levels outside Pripyat are monitored pretty closely. There is a higher incidence of certain illnesses (cancer, thyroid, etc.) the closer you get to the zone, but travelers are in no danger. They even do tours into the exclusion zone now. I still wouldn't eat the mushrooms from that part of the country though

Well then Gary..... there is something that you offer to her that keeps her coming back to you?

Love?

Substinance?

Cooking?

Syrup?

Fish?

Long......?

There must be something about you?

What is it about Brad?.............

You could write an eBook and make a fortune!

Kindness, stability, and the fact that I can dress myself she says.

[Jamaican JNR 2]

I was hesitant to open this topic, but today I am bored and decided to post my question for public opinion. This question is mainly for USC men with a fiancee from the FSU. But others can chime in too, if they feel like it.

I have probably slept in more hotels than a "hoe" in the past years (notice that I said HOTELS and not BEDS). Because of that, I have got used to letting the maid do her job, while I do mine. That is why I find it odd and even annoying when my Russian fiancee chooses to make the bed at every hotel we have stayed, even after I tell her not to do it.

Am I insensitive for telling my fiancee not to help the maid? Of particular concern to me is that the maid will choose not to change the sheets after seeing that the bed is already made. But no matter how I tell my fiancee, she chooses to ignore my pleas (most of the time). Will she get spoiled (and hence stop doing it even at home) if I interfere?

Just curious to know how you guys have dealt with behavior you find odd (or simply, unexpected).

If you spouce wants to make the bed up, what is wrong with it? Maybe you have a loving spouce that is clean and loves to care of you. Do you want your spouce to change?

[*Snowdrop* 604]

Kindness, stability, and the fact that I can dress myself she says.

I can't speak for anyone else but that's pretty much what I want in a guy.

[visaveteran 1]

A quick response to some of the posts above. First, Gary is 100% right about the creature comforts. They are nice to have, but most Ukrainians I know are very happy where they are (in Ukraine), and would not move for AC, or anything like that. I hope we can all acknowledge that when those kinds of things drive a relationship there is a huge problem somewhere.

Secondly, most of Ukraine is definitely not radioactive. There is an exclusion zone around Chernobyl, and radiation levels outside Pripyat are monitored pretty closely. There is a higher incidence of certain illnesses (cancer, thyroid, etc.) the closer you get to the zone, but travelers are in no danger. They even do tours into the exclusion zone now. I still wouldn't eat the mushrooms from that part of the country though

Well then Gary..... there is something that you offer to her that keeps her coming back to you?

Love?

Substinance?

Cooking?

Syrup?

Fish?

Long......?

There must be something about you?

What is it about Brad?.............

You could write an eBook and make a fortune!

Kindness, stability, and the fact that I can dress myself she says.

I think women in Moscow and St. Petersburg probably are not so anxious to leave their homeland and also have nice flats, jobs, cars, etc. I dated such a woman for about a year each. I even met her in the Dominican Republic for two weeks. She paid her own airfare. It was a great fling but ultimately she chose to keep her life in Russia. We parted friends...and she was superb. There is, however, a competition issue. Must of the online dating or more localized personal servcie match-makers focus on the big city girls...who wants to send naive, unprepared American men into the harshness of Siberia? Not a limo in sight. English speakers a rarity. So, teh city girls have it good...lots of guys heading their way. So the auction begins...who will make the highest offer?

My Msocow girlfriend did a poor job of hiding the fact that she had other suitors. One time she unhooked her hard line phone during my visit.

I think you Ukrainia-niks tend to stick with the bigger cities in the Ukraine, especially Kiev, for wife searching. So you will, certainly, encounter women who need to be persuaded and impressed and so forth. That can come off as noble or endearing...but what is it really? Looking for the best deal. No great deal, no immigration. The American men, in true style, suggest this is proof their women are looking for love. Love of what?

Not sure what would be the equivalent to Siberia in the Ukraine. I don't hear much from men who've gone off the beaten path to find a wife in the harsher regions of the Ukraine...so you all sing the same song about the choosy, well-off or comfortable women who will only marry for the love of a man. Never for AC and a nice car.

OK, try going into the deep, harsh interior and see if that profile changes.

A Ukraine woman from Kiev is very different from one living in the interior villages. You can't understand until you venture out there...where English is rarely spoken and you don't get a private driver...just a junker taxi or an ancient bus...or walk it. Life is harsh and women are anxious to leave...so you can expect high respect, gratitude, and cooperation in moving forward in a relationship. Rather than wining and dining and hoping she picks YOU.

A judge lot of American men hide, deny and repress the truth that the term, "Mail Order Bride" is not that far off the mark to save face and to fabricate a relationship that is advertised as love when it may well be for other reasons. The fat, bald guy who gets the beautiful, gorgeous younger wife is not far fetched. But you will not likely find that sort of possibility these days unless you go pioneer. Take the road less travelled. Or, get a cushy overseas job and YOU are in the drivers seat...as with Gary. Gary is not the typical, internet driven American wife shopper.

Good for him. The rest of us have to do it the hard and fast way.

[visaveteran 1]

A quick response to some of the posts above. First, Gary is 100% right about the creature comforts. They are nice to have, but most Ukrainians I know are very happy where they are (in Ukraine), and would not move for AC, or anything like that. I hope we can all acknowledge that when those kinds of things drive a relationship there is a huge problem somewhere.

Secondly, most of Ukraine is definitely not radioactive. There is an exclusion zone around Chernobyl, and radiation levels outside Pripyat are monitored pretty closely. There is a higher incidence of certain illnesses (cancer, thyroid, etc.) the closer you get to the zone, but travelers are in no danger. They even do tours into the exclusion zone now. I still wouldn't eat the mushrooms from that part of the country though

Well then Gary..... there is something that you offer to her that keeps her coming back to you?

Love?

Substinance?

Cooking?

Syrup?

Fish?

Long......?

There must be something about you?

What is it about Brad?.............

You could write an eBook and make a fortune!

Kindness, stability, and the fact that I can dress myself she says.

I think women in Moscow and St. Petersburg probably are not so anxious to leave their homeland and also have nice flats, jobs, cars, etc. I dated such a woman for about a year each. I even met her in the Dominican Republic for two weeks. She paid her own airfare. It was a great fling but ultimately she chose to keep her life in Russia. We parted friends...and she was superb. There is, however, a competition issue. Must of the online dating or more localized personal servcie match-makers focus on the big city girls...who wants to send naive, unprepared American men into the harshness of Siberia? Not a limo in sight. English speakers a rarity. So, teh city girls have it good...lots of guys heading their way. So the auction begins...who will make the highest offer?

My Msocow girlfriend did a poor job of hiding the fact that she had other suitors. One time she unhooked her hard line phone during my visit.

I think you Ukrainia-niks tend to stick with the bigger cities in the Ukraine, especially Kiev, for wife searching. So you will, certainly, encounter women who need to be persuaded and impressed and so forth. That can come off as noble or endearing...but what is it really? Looking for the best deal. No great deal, no immigration. The American men, in true style, suggest this is proof their women are looking for love. Love of what?

Not sure what would be the equivalent to Siberia in the Ukraine. I don't hear much from men who've gone off the beaten path to find a wife in the harsher regions of the Ukraine...so you all sing the same song about the choosy, well-off or comfortable women who will only marry for the love of a man. Never for AC and a nice car.

OK, try going into the deep, harsh interior and see if that profile changes.

A Ukraine woman from Kiev is very different from one living in the interior villages. You can't understand until you venture out there...where English is rarely spoken and you don't get a private driver...just a junker taxi or an ancient bus...or walk it. Life is harsh and women are anxious to leave...so you can expect high respect, gratitude, and cooperation in moving forward in a relationship. Rather than wining and dining and hoping she picks YOU.

A judge lot of American men hide, deny and repress the truth that the term, "Mail Order Bride" is not that far off the mark to save face and to fabricate a relationship that is advertised as love when it may well be for other reasons. The fat, bald guy who gets the beautiful, gorgeous younger wife is not far fetched. But you will not likely find that sort of possibility these days unless you go pioneer. Take the road less travelled. Or, get a cushy overseas job and YOU are in the drivers seat...as with Gary. Gary is not the typical, internet driven American wife shopper.

Good for him. The rest of us have to do it the hard and fast way.

PS: I tried editing the typos...unsuccessfully obviously. But I did try.

[slim 1,523]

How can she be a MOB if she wasn't ordered through the mail?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well then Gary..... there is something that you offer to her that keeps her coming back to you?

Love?

Substinance?

Cooking?

Syrup?

Fish?

Long......?

There must be something about you?

What is it about Brad?.............

You could write an eBook and make a fortune!

I think it is the maple syrup. all the other things are easily available in Ukraine. Thoiugh the fish is kinda funky! For Brad it must be, I do declare, the mint juleps!