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[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

but at least it is clear that most nigerian visas ARE denied.

There are more approved Visa's then denied.

Lately there have been no straight up appovals, Just AP after AP. And of the approvals over the last year there have been several obvious shams marraiges that have already been exposed and others that will be as soon as the 10 year card is in hand.

[GabiandVi 34]

I think you are missing your own point. You originally asked why so many Africans are denied visas and you responded that there are fraudsters in every country. The truth is, there are very few people from developed countries who fraudulently enter into a relationship with a USC for the purposes of getting an American greencard. There simply isn't the motivation in those countries to forsake your own country to live under the law in the US. (When you live illegally in the US, you can't visit your own country or you won't be allowed back in the US.) That lack of motivation to illegally immigrate to the US is why some countries qualify for the visa waiver program. This is not just speculation on the part of the US government. There are statistics that show people from certain countries are more likely to overstay tourist or student visas or to be involved in visa fraud in the case of fiance/spouse visas. For example, while the rest of Europe qualified for the visa waiver program, Greece and Portugal did not because too many people from those countries overstayed their tourist visas. It had nothing to do with geography or race. It was based solely on trends. Trends show that Nigeria, among other countries, has a percentage of visa applicants who have applied fraudulently.

As for scammers and corruption in other countries, it is not the same as what occurs in Nigeria, other African countries, and other third-world countries. Certainly there is fraud in every country, but it is not so widespread as what we see in countries such as Nigeria. In the US, we don't have to pay a bribe to get a phone or a building permit, etc., for example. It is not the norm here for contractors to have to grease the palms of government officials and pay a kickback to get contracts, etc. It is pretty much unheard of to be stopped by a policeman and have to pay a bribe in order to continue on your way. The average American never encounters such corruption. The average American, Australian, European is never directly affected by corruption. Sadly, the same cannot be said about a lot of other countries' citizens.

I'm not suggesting that Nigerians are evil people. But you have to face reality. There are consequences for bad behavior and OFTEN it is the honest people who have to pay the biggest price. You cannot deny the culture of corruption that exists in Nigeria. Unfortunately, corruption is so much a part of life in many African countries that the average citizen does not fight it because they see no way around it. This way of thinking would shock the average American. Your typical American on hearing about having to pay to get a phone line would ask why the authorities weren't called, or the media. They would not understand and would consider the person paying the bribe part of the problem.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

I understand what is marketed is not what the "norm" is. But I am also aware that there is a generation being raised by parents that think the F word is part of normal conversation and there are toddlers being raised in homes where the music they listen to reflects a total disregard for everything decent. I was raised in a home where the music when it was allowed was religious , classical or what is now termed blue grass. TV was the Walt Disney show and Ed Sullivan ( yes I am old ) . Even in my SO country they have dance that is very earthy but the songs don't glorify the violence that our culture does. I truly believe much of what is gone wrong lately is from the lazy disrespectful culture we have popularized. As you sow so shall you reap.

I think you are mixing two different issues. You started out talking about race and now you're talking about generation. I agree that younger generations are different and sometimes develop different norms and standards different than their parents. I think the problem that you are referring to is that some parents don't "parent". They are not actively engaged in what their children are exposed to and in helping them interpret their meaning and importance. Of course this isn't all parents, and some do a better job than others.

And what race sings most of these songs, glorifies gangs and drugs the most ?

[Simply_Uno 1]

I think you are missing your own point. You originally asked why so many Africans are denied visas and you responded that there are fraudsters in every country. The truth is, there are very few people from developed countries who fraudulently enter into a relationship with a USC for the purposes of getting an American greencard. There simply isn't the motivation in those countries to forsake your own country to live under the law in the US. (When you live illegally in the US, you can't visit your own country or you won't be allowed back in the US.) That lack of motivation to illegally immigrate to the US is why some countries qualify for the visa waiver program. This is not just speculation on the part of the US government. There are statistics that show people from certain countries are more likely to overstay tourist or student visas or to be involved in visa fraud in the case of fiance/spouse visas. For example, while the rest of Europe qualified for the visa waiver program, Greece and Portugal did not because too many people from those countries overstayed their tourist visas. It had nothing to do with geography or race. It was based solely on trends. Trends show that Nigeria, among other countries, has a percentage of visa applicants who have applied fraudulently.

As for scammers and corruption in other countries, it is not the same as what occurs in Nigeria, other African countries, and other third-world countries. Certainly there is fraud in every country, but it is not so widespread as what we see in countries such as Nigeria. In the US, we don't have to pay a bribe to get a phone or a building permit, etc., for example. It is not the norm here for contractors to have to grease the palms of government officials and pay a kickback to get contracts, etc. It is pretty much unheard of to be stopped by a policeman and have to pay a bribe in order to continue on your way. The average American never encounters such corruption. The average American, Australian, European is never directly affected by corruption. Sadly, the same cannot be said about a lot of other countries' citizens.

I'm not suggesting that Nigerians are evil people. But you have to face reality. There are consequences for bad behavior and OFTEN it is the honest people who have to pay the biggest price. You cannot deny the culture of corruption that exists in Nigeria. Unfortunately, corruption is so much a part of life in many African countries that the average citizen does not fight it because they see no way around it. This way of thinking would shock the average American. Your typical American on hearing about having to pay to get a phone line would ask why the authorities weren't called, or the media. They would not understand and would consider the person paying the bribe part of the problem.

a most excellent post

[reeses16 8]

I understand what is marketed is not what the "norm" is. But I am also aware that there is a generation being raised by parents that think the F word is part of normal conversation and there are toddlers being raised in homes where the music they listen to reflects a total disregard for everything decent. I was raised in a home where the music when it was allowed was religious , classical or what is now termed blue grass. TV was the Walt Disney show and Ed Sullivan ( yes I am old ) . Even in my SO country they have dance that is very earthy but the songs don't glorify the violence that our culture does. I truly believe much of what is gone wrong lately is from the lazy disrespectful culture we have popularized. As you sow so shall you reap.

I think you are mixing two different issues. You started out talking about race and now you're talking about generation. I agree that younger generations are different and sometimes develop different norms and standards different than their parents. I think the problem that you are referring to is that some parents don't "parent". They are not actively engaged in what their children are exposed to and in helping them interpret their meaning and importance. Of course this isn't all parents, and some do a better job than others.

And what race sings most of these songs, glorifies gangs and drugs the most ?

There a tons of great music (that span many different genres) made by African Americans that do not get the air play that the exploitative songs do. Why? Because that's not what the executives want to promote. Why? Because they think it won't be profitable.

In any case, I think you've made your mind up. Just consider that the same way you are generalizing African Americans will be the same way people will generalize your Nigerian fiance/husband. And I bet you will think they are being every bit of unreasonable when your SO is the target.

Edited September 14, 2009 by reeses16

[mankind 0]

but at least it is clear that most nigerian visas ARE denied.

There are more approved Visa's then denied.

Lately there have been no straight up appovals, Just AP after AP. And of the approvals over the last year there have been several obvious shams marraiges that have already been exposed and others that will be as soon as the 10 year card is in hand.

I personally like when people do say the truth ,and i think you are doing that

but i cant really understand WHY there are Alot of USC petitioning for Nigeria ?

when they all have confident that after the 10year card it will be a sham marriage ???

Every month i see about 20 petitions been send to nigeria by USC ,ARe all this cases sham marriages ??

What is a sham Marriage please ??

thanks

[mankind 0]

I think you are missing your own point. You originally asked why so many Africans are denied visas and you responded that there are fraudsters in every country. The truth is, there are very few people from developed countries who fraudulently enter into a relationship with a USC for the purposes of getting an American greencard. There simply isn't the motivation in those countries to forsake your own country to live under the law in the US. (When you live illegally in the US, you can't visit your own country or you won't be allowed back in the US.) That lack of motivation to illegally immigrate to the US is why some countries qualify for the visa waiver program. This is not just speculation on the part of the US government. There are statistics that show people from certain countries are more likely to overstay tourist or student visas or to be involved in visa fraud in the case of fiance/spouse visas. For example, while the rest of Europe qualified for the visa waiver program, Greece and Portugal did not because too many people from those countries overstayed their tourist visas. It had nothing to do with geography or race. It was based solely on trends. Trends show that Nigeria, among other countries, has a percentage of visa applicants who have applied fraudulently.

As for scammers and corruption in other countries, it is not the same as what occurs in Nigeria, other African countries, and other third-world countries. Certainly there is fraud in every country, but it is not so widespread as what we see in countries such as Nigeria. In the US, we don't have to pay a bribe to get a phone or a building permit, etc., for example. It is not the norm here for contractors to have to grease the palms of government officials and pay a kickback to get contracts, etc. It is pretty much unheard of to be stopped by a policeman and have to pay a bribe in order to continue on your way. The average American never encounters such corruption. The average American, Australian, European is never directly affected by corruption. Sadly, the same cannot be said about a lot of other countries' citizens.

I'm not suggesting that Nigerians are evil people. But you have to face reality. There are consequences for bad behavior and OFTEN it is the honest people who have to pay the biggest price. You cannot deny the culture of corruption that exists in Nigeria. Unfortunately, corruption is so much a part of life in many African countries that the average citizen does not fight it because they see no way around it. This way of thinking would shock the average American. Your typical American on hearing about having to pay to get a phone line would ask why the authorities weren't called, or the media. They would not understand and would consider the person paying the bribe part of the problem.

First of all i will like to say alot of us like to see lover's and family like you

your points are good and i m so happy that you are with and African .

people here made me to know that the reason why VIsas are been denied is because of fraud .

Also please may be you are not so inform ,there are fraudster everywhere in world .

the problem is most people in the west are so intelligent in doing fraudulent activities ,that is why its

can never be realised .

[Enlighten one :) 5]

First of all i will like to say alot of us like to see lover's and family like you

your points are good and i m so happy that you are with and African .

people here made me to know that the reason why VIsas are been denied is because of fraud .

Also please may be you are not so inform ,there are fraudster everywhere in world .

the problem is most people in the west are so intelligent in doing fraudulent activities ,that is why its

can never be realised .

You are wrong that is exactly what I said earlier in this thread. That I do realize the education level and lack of opportunities. Please see quote below:

Nigerians were among the first to use the internet to take advantage of others. They quickly become associated with the letters from people seeking help in getting millions out of some where if only you can help them a little. In fact those scams are called by the Nigerian penal code number 419 for those scams. So when people take online scams they frequently say "Nigerian 419". Most people have little other reason to think of Nigeria.

That means the only words they hear about Nigeria is SCAM. If someone introduced you to a woman and said she was lazy , and the next person said she was lazy you might think she was lazy , not even knowing how she really is. It is that way with Nigerians , the first time you heard of them , they were scammers, the second time they were scammers. So you starting Nigerian and scammer are the same thing.

I have to disagree completely. Nigerians were not the first to use the Internet to take advantage of others. American have been using the Internet to take advantage of others way before Nigerian had readily available access to the Internet. Nigerian might have been the first to make a significant amount of money from it due to their high education rate and lack of jobs. But not the first to take advantage of others. I am sure America can take the trophy on that one.

[mankind 0]

I understand what is marketed is not what the "norm" is. But I am also aware that there is a generation being raised by parents that think the F word is part of normal conversation and there are toddlers being raised in homes where the music they listen to reflects a total disregard for everything decent. I was raised in a home where the music when it was allowed was religious , classical or what is now termed blue grass. TV was the Walt Disney show and Ed Sullivan ( yes I am old ) . Even in my SO country they have dance that is very earthy but the songs don't glorify the violence that our culture does. I truly believe much of what is gone wrong lately is from the lazy disrespectful culture we have popularized. As you sow so shall you reap.

I think you are mixing two different issues. You started out talking about race and now you're talking about generation. I agree that younger generations are different and sometimes develop different norms and standards different than their parents. I think the problem that you are referring to is that some parents don't "parent". They are not actively engaged in what their children are exposed to and in helping them interpret their meaning and importance. Of course this isn't all parents, and some do a better job than others.

And what race sings most of these songs, glorifies gangs and drugs the most ?

There a tons of great music (that span many different genres) made by African Americans that do not get the air play that the exploitative songs do. Why? Because that's not what the executives want to promote. Why? Because they think it won't be profitable.

In any case, I think you've made your mind up. Just consider that the same way you are generalizing African Americans will be the same way people will generalize your Nigerian fiance/husband. And I bet you will think they are being every bit of unreasonable when your SO is the target.

You are really making sense here ,How can someone thinks about a race so badly the way she thinks and have already made her mind about the race and is till

fightinng with the USM to have a Visa for her fiance who is a black ,and as she has said that nigeria is a highly fraudulent country ?

I will never try to marry someone from a race i dont like ,and also from a very fraudulent country as she has been saying .

she is angry with the black in the US and also she is so informed about nigerian and at same time her fiance is from nigeria

and she has been with him for 4 year and his family for 10year .

so my QUESTION ,How are you sure your fiance and his family are not joking you and later it will be a sham marriage ?

because some have said here that even the churches in nigeria are fraudulent .

any respond to the above questions will be highly appreciated

[mankind 0]

First of all i will like to say alot of us like to see lover's and family like you

your points are good and i m so happy that you are with and African .

people here made me to know that the reason why VIsas are been denied is because of fraud .

Also please may be you are not so inform ,there are fraudster everywhere in world .

the problem is most people in the west are so intelligent in doing fraudulent activities ,that is why its

can never be realised .

You are wrong that is exactly what I said earlier in this thread. That I do realize the education level and lack of opportunities. Please see quote below:

Nigerians were among the first to use the internet to take advantage of others. They quickly become associated with the letters from people seeking help in getting millions out of some where if only you can help them a little. In fact those scams are called by the Nigerian penal code number 419 for those scams. So when people take online scams they frequently say "Nigerian 419". Most people have little other reason to think of Nigeria.

That means the only words they hear about Nigeria is SCAM. If someone introduced you to a woman and said she was lazy , and the next person said she was lazy you might think she was lazy , not even knowing how she really is. It is that way with Nigerians , the first time you heard of them , they were scammers, the second time they were scammers. So you starting Nigerian and scammer are the same thing.

I have to disagree completely. Nigerians were not the first to use the Internet to take advantage of others. American have been using the Internet to take advantage of others way before Nigerian had readily available access to the Internet. Nigerian might have been the first to make a significant amount of money from it due to their high education rate and lack of jobs. But not the first to take advantage of others. I am sure America can take the trophy on that one.

Yes please i cant say YES or No about this because i m not inform about IT.

i dont know the people who started this bad activities .

I only know about the horrible french activities till going on in African today after colonisation .

I m so sad about this activities.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

I don't hate blacks I hate the image that has become the predominate reflection of the race. You can get ahead in the US if you take responsibility for getting ahead. Unfortunately our culture likes to let ofthers be responsibility for failure. Parents, teachers, the system. I have had the opportunity to ask people questions and the answers are amazing. I had a petty theif tell me that the reason he stole was because "my people where brought here as slaves" This man was at least 4 generations removed from anyone who had been a slave , yet still that was the cause of his issues. He is angry at the world and make free use of profane words. In contrast I work with a brilliant young girl that is about the same age and background and she is working towards her masters. Sadly many people follow the path of the first young man to varying degrees because it is an easier path.

As to your second question about churches and fraud. Yes churches can be fraud , but even in them you can find an honest Christian just as in a good church you can find people who's heart is full of evil.

You have made several comments about the evil the french have done in Africa but how was their colonization different from that of other countries ?

[mankind 0]

I don't hate blacks I hate the image that has become the predominate reflection of the race. You can get ahead in the US if you take responsibility for getting ahead. Unfortunately our culture likes to let ofthers be responsibility for failure. Parents, teachers, the system. I have had the opportunity to ask people questions and the answers are amazing. I had a petty theif tell me that the reason he stole was because "my people where brought here as slaves" This man was at least 4 generations removed from anyone who had been a slave , yet still that was the cause of his issues. He is angry at the world and make free use of profane words. In contrast I work with a brilliant young girl that is about the same age and background and she is working towards her masters. Sadly many people follow the path of the first young man to varying degrees because it is an easier path.

As to your second question about churches and fraud. Yes churches can be fraud , but even in them you can find an honest Christian just as in a good church you can find people who's heart is full of evil.

You have made several comments about the evil the french have done in Africa but how was their colonization different from that of other countries ?

I m so happy that you dont hate blacks

What images predominatly reflects the Black race in the US?

just asking because i dont know .

It is different because the french are till supporting horrible heads of state in African

the british were also in African but there are not supporting the dictator's in their various

colonial empire in African example Zimbabwe.

the french are till only receiving and using the African .

BUSH help the African alot with his HIV Aids policies in African

now alot of African can live ,without this Aid by bush ,i think it would

have been a diseaster,the french who where the principle colonial master

have never done anything like that in African ,they are only supporting this dictators

and having their cheap resources from their former colonies .

that is why i have been complaining alot about french .

[GabiandVi 34]

I don't hate blacks I hate the image that has become the predominate reflection of the race. You can get ahead in the US if you take responsibility for getting ahead. Unfortunately our culture likes to let ofthers be responsibility for failure. Parents, teachers, the system. I have had the opportunity to ask people questions and the answers are amazing. I had a petty theif tell me that the reason he stole was because "my people where brought here as slaves" This man was at least 4 generations removed from anyone who had been a slave , yet still that was the cause of his issues. He is angry at the world and make free use of profane words. In contrast I work with a brilliant young girl that is about the same age and background and she is working towards her masters. Sadly many people follow the path of the first young man to varying degrees because it is an easier path.

As to your second question about churches and fraud. Yes churches can be fraud , but even in them you can find an honest Christian just as in a good church you can find people who's heart is full of evil.

You have made several comments about the evil the french have done in Africa but how was their colonization different from that of other countries ?

[mankind 0]

I don't hate blacks I hate the image that has become the predominate reflection of the race. You can get ahead in the US if you take responsibility for getting ahead. Unfortunately our culture likes to let ofthers be responsibility for failure. Parents, teachers, the system. I have had the opportunity to ask people questions and the answers are amazing. I had a petty theif tell me that the reason he stole was because "my people where brought here as slaves" This man was at least 4 generations removed from anyone who had been a slave , yet still that was the cause of his issues. He is angry at the world and make free use of profane words. In contrast I work with a brilliant young girl that is about the same age and background and she is working towards her masters. Sadly many people follow the path of the first young man to varying degrees because it is an easier path.

As to your second question about churches and fraud. Yes churches can be fraud , but even in them you can find an honest Christian just as in a good church you can find people who's heart is full of evil.

You have made several comments about the evil the french have done in Africa but how was their colonization different from that of other countries ?

I m so sick when people can know a race like this and at the same time they like to have kids and a family with them .

its so funny .i cant understand why ??you like the about comment and your kid is a black and you want to marry the father of your kid?

who is an African ,my OUESTION ,HOW do you think this boy from benin is not more horrible like the blacks in US?

And also there are alot of traditions in African concerning marriages ,do you know this traditions ?

Can you treat this boy like an African girl will do ? this is because African even educated like to follow their system or traditions .

you have to try to look at the black people in the US and the African carefully before ever making a decision to be with one of them .

the blacks in the US are African but there are completely different from the African with everything in life.

i m so happy seeing lover's like you ,but you have to stop supporting poor comments about black .

[GabiandVi 34]

I don't hate blacks I hate the image that has become the predominate reflection of the race. You can get ahead in the US if you take responsibility for getting ahead. Unfortunately our culture likes to let ofthers be responsibility for failure. Parents, teachers, the system. I have had the opportunity to ask people questions and the answers are amazing. I had a petty theif tell me that the reason he stole was because "my people where brought here as slaves" This man was at least 4 generations removed from anyone who had been a slave , yet still that was the cause of his issues. He is angry at the world and make free use of profane words. In contrast I work with a brilliant young girl that is about the same age and background and she is working towards her masters. Sadly many people follow the path of the first young man to varying degrees because it is an easier path.

As to your second question about churches and fraud. Yes churches can be fraud , but even in them you can find an honest Christian just as in a good church you can find people who's heart is full of evil.

You have made several comments about the evil the french have done in Africa but how was their colonization different from that of other countries ?

I m so sick when people can know a race like this and at the same time they like to have kids and a family with them .

its so funny .i cant understand why ??you like the about comment and your kid is a black and you want to marry the father of your kid?

who is an African ,my OUESTION ,HOW do you think this boy from benin is not more horrible like the blacks in US?

And also there are alot of traditions in African concerning marriages ,do you know this traditions ?

Can you treat this boy like an African girl will do ? this is because African even educated like to follow their system or traditions .

you have to try to look at the black people in the US and the African carefully before ever making a decision to be with one of them .

the blacks in the US are African but there are completely different from the African with everything in life.

i m so happy seeing lover's like you ,but you have to stop supporting poor comments about black .

First of all, I never made my comment. I intended to, but I was suddenly called away and somehow my reply without my comment was posted. Secondly, I am already married to the father of my child. One of the things he admired most about me before our marriage was my acceptance of his culture and ways. That is not to say I am not frustrated and annoyed by some of his ways just as he is frustrated and annoyed by some of mine. But that is life, especially married life.

Can I treat my husband as an African woman would? Almost certainly not. Can he treat me like an American man would? Highly unlikely.

Now I WILL make a comment, and that is that I will agressively confront anyone who has lower expectations of performance and behavior for my daughter because she is Black. I know many well-meaning people who do have lower expectations for Blacks and other minorities or people living in poverty, all in the name of political correctness. I will fight these lower expectations even if it means expressing disapproval of an aspect of a culture. Even if it means being politcally incorrect and offending people who see race first.

When I first began teaching and was in a predominately Black school, I was appalled to observe that any Black student who was remotely studious was accused by his or her fellow Black students of "being White." He or she was ostracized and called an "Uncle Tom." Would you excuse this as part of the culture and therefore defend it? If so, you would be supporting lower expectations of academic achievement for an entire race of people. How can students be expected to compete when studiousness is considered a foreign and contemptuous trait? I cannot support this and will stand up against this and similar attitudes for the sake of my daughter among others.

I taught with young White teachers from the Northeast recruited fresh out of Ivy League universities to teach in underachieving schools with high minority and poor populations and who had never really been around Black people before. On some level they thought of themselves as saviors coming in to defend the poor black students from their "White, racist, Southern, teachers." (Imagine their surprise when they discovered that the majority of the teachers were also Black.) Whenever a White student would be disrespectful or lazy, etc., these young teachers were horrified, but when the Black students would behave similarly, they excused the behavior as justified because of their circumstances. How can this be okay? It is this sort of political correct, well-meaning, "liberal" attitude that promotes failure, and I won't be a party to it, even if it makes ignorant people call me racist. I firmly believe in holding everyone to the same expectations regardless of race, gender, or socio-economic background. I believe that is what Nigeriaorbust meant by her comment.

After 12 years abroad now having returned to an American public school, I don't see the above described attitudes nearly as much, but I do see that all my students, regardless of race or gender with the exception of some recent immigrants (all my students are from low socio-economic backgrounds) all have the same low level of expectation of behavior and achievement. It seems instead of raising the bar across the board, we have lowered it. But I probably shouldn't make a generalization here. My position dictates that I teach the lowest performing students, so hopefully, things have changed completely from what I experienced before I went abroad.

NOW, my initial reason for replying to the above post was to comment on French colonization. The real issue of French colonization is that the French profited from their colonies but left little infrastructure, while the British at least left relatively good infrastructures. However, the French interfered much less. Perhaps that was not a good thing, but at least it was an attitude more accepting of the cultures they found. The British always seemed to want to recreate the "natives" in their image. The French sort of lived and let live.