I am outraged!

[morocco4ever 63]

Just what I expected. Why learn from those that have already gone through it. Better to beat a dead horse.

Good luck. May the bumps on your head heal quickly.

I am not going to read through this entire thread. But I would like to take a moment to address that there are some that feel that we can actually make a difference. Let me give you a brief story of our journey.

I married in Morocco in Oct of 04. We filed for the CR1 in December of 04. My husbands interview was in Aug of 05. Sounds good so far, right? He was denied, as were many others here on VJ from the same consulate. We fought like He!!. Wrote letters, phone calls, emails, you name it we did it. Did anything in the process change? No. Do we wish this He!! on anyone else? No. Bottom line is you're banging your head against the wall. The system sucks, but we wasted our time and effort on methods that didn't work. The people that have the ability to change it, and that isn't us the little people, see this process in a different light that we do. They are trying to weed out the fraud. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to us, but they see the entire picture that we don't.

My husband finally got his visa in Dec of 06. And that was considered speedy for a returned petition. I know someone that had their interview a month before ours and her husband just got here last month. So I guess I get a little annoyed that there are those that are whining about their normal process taking a few extra months when I see that there are those that waited years with less complaints.

This is the process that is set in place. You have 2 choices here. Follow the process as is laid out by the USCIS/DOS or move to your fiance/spouse's country. I guess you will call me heartless because I have my husband here now. But the truth is that my spirit is broken because of this system. Post back here after you have fought the same battle that we have. Let's see if you have the same high hopes that you can make a difference.

Thanks for the sermon. Despite being called a whiner by many members that are farther through their journey, I am taking action. As a result of reading all of the posts from people like you on this thread, I have promised myself that later down the road if I am embittered and pessimistic about the process, I will keep my opinions and sad story to myself and make an effort not to judge people who have come here for support or to express their frustration. There is always going to be someone somewhere out there that has a sadder story than your own (that had to walk ten miles in snow in winter to schoool), but this does not mean it is futile to take whatever actions you feel might help your cause and the broader cause if you are so inclined. Why don't we all just try to "live and let live" a little more in this thread.

You forgot the uphill in both directions.

[Stephen + Elisha 92]

I am not going to read through this entire thread. But I would like to take a moment to address that there are some that feel that we can actually make a difference. Let me give you a brief story of our journey.

I married in Morocco in Oct of 04. We filed for the CR1 in December of 04. My husbands interview was in Aug of 05. Sounds good so far, right? He was denied, as were many others here on VJ from the same consulate. We fought like He!!. Wrote letters, phone calls, emails, you name it we did it. Did anything in the process change? No. Do we wish this He!! on anyone else? No. Bottom line is you're banging your head against the wall. The system sucks, but we wasted our time and effort on methods that didn't work. The people that have the ability to change it, and that isn't us the little people, see this process in a different light that we do. They are trying to weed out the fraud. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to us, but they see the entire picture that we don't.

My husband finally got his visa in Dec of 06. And that was considered speedy for a returned petition. I know someone that had their interview a month before ours and her husband just got here last month. So I guess I get a little annoyed that there are those that are whining about their normal process taking a few extra months when I see that there are those that waited years with less complaints.

This is the process that is set in place. You have 2 choices here. Follow the process as is laid out by the USCIS/DOS or move to your fiance/spouse's country. I guess you will call me heartless because I have my husband here now. But the truth is that my spirit is broken because of this system. Post back here after you have fought the same battle that we have. Let's see if you have the same high hopes that you can make a difference.

I'm very sorry that the process failed you the way it did, and glad that in the end you came through and are together.

That being said, your comments here really haven't contributed anything to this particular discussion. All you've really done is thrown turds on the table.

Perhaps nothing will come of people's efforts to change the system. Change is difficult and slow. But certainly nothing will change if everyone just resigns themselves to bending over and grabbing their ankles as you suggest.

Nobody's hurting you by trying to make things better. So why do you act so offended when others don't accept your advice to just bend over and take it?

Edited July 24, 2009 by Stephen + Elisha

[morocco4ever 63]

I am not going to read through this entire thread. But I would like to take a moment to address that there are some that feel that we can actually make a difference. Let me give you a brief story of our journey.

I married in Morocco in Oct of 04. We filed for the CR1 in December of 04. My husbands interview was in Aug of 05. Sounds good so far, right? He was denied, as were many others here on VJ from the same consulate. We fought like He!!. Wrote letters, phone calls, emails, you name it we did it. Did anything in the process change? No. Do we wish this He!! on anyone else? No. Bottom line is you're banging your head against the wall. The system sucks, but we wasted our time and effort on methods that didn't work. The people that have the ability to change it, and that isn't us the little people, see this process in a different light that we do. They are trying to weed out the fraud. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to us, but they see the entire picture that we don't.

My husband finally got his visa in Dec of 06. And that was considered speedy for a returned petition. I know someone that had their interview a month before ours and her husband just got here last month. So I guess I get a little annoyed that there are those that are whining about their normal process taking a few extra months when I see that there are those that waited years with less complaints.

This is the process that is set in place. You have 2 choices here. Follow the process as is laid out by the USCIS/DOS or move to your fiance/spouse's country. I guess you will call me heartless because I have my husband here now. But the truth is that my spirit is broken because of this system. Post back here after you have fought the same battle that we have. Let's see if you have the same high hopes that you can make a difference.

I'm very sorry that the process failed you the way it did, and glad that in the end you came through and are together.

That being said, you really haven't contributed anything here. All you've really done is thrown turds on the table.

Perhaps nothing will come of people's efforts to change the system. Change is difficult and slow. But certainly nothing will change if everyone just resigns themselves to bending over and grabbing their ankles as you suggest.

Nobody's hurting you by trying to make things better. So why do you act so offended when others don't accept your advice to just bend over and take it?

You may view them as "turds on the table", but they are facts. Okay, you think you can make a difference then read through this entire thread.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3896

This is what came from mine and a few others research on how to fix a broken system. Kiyah, Chi and I, along with many others have worked very hard just to come to the realization that there is not much one can do to change the system. It is like an ant throwing pebbles at the feet of giants. They are just brushed away. What we did accomplish, that we didn't have, was a support group that was able to provide guidance through the process. Something we didn't have. Were we pissed off? Yes, but rather than blow it out of our a$$e$ on how we can make changes we researched and found out the normal process so that we could help others going through similar situations. We didn't change the system, we just understand it better now than we did when we started.

And please when you are done "changing the system", please come back and post your "I told you so" thread. If by chance you are able to make changes I will gladly say I was wrong.

[daboyz 36]

I am not going to read through this entire thread. But I would like to take a moment to address that there are some that feel that we can actually make a difference. Let me give you a brief story of our journey.

I married in Morocco in Oct of 04. We filed for the CR1 in December of 04. My husbands interview was in Aug of 05. Sounds good so far, right? He was denied, as were many others here on VJ from the same consulate. We fought like He!!. Wrote letters, phone calls, emails, you name it we did it. Did anything in the process change? No. Do we wish this He!! on anyone else? No. Bottom line is you're banging your head against the wall. The system sucks, but we wasted our time and effort on methods that didn't work. The people that have the ability to change it, and that isn't us the little people, see this process in a different light that we do. They are trying to weed out the fraud. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to us, but they see the entire picture that we don't.

My husband finally got his visa in Dec of 06. And that was considered speedy for a returned petition. I know someone that had their interview a month before ours and her husband just got here last month. So I guess I get a little annoyed that there are those that are whining about their normal process taking a few extra months when I see that there are those that waited years with less complaints.

This is the process that is set in place. You have 2 choices here. Follow the process as is laid out by the USCIS/DOS or move to your fiance/spouse's country. I guess you will call me heartless because I have my husband here now. But the truth is that my spirit is broken because of this system. Post back here after you have fought the same battle that we have. Let's see if you have the same high hopes that you can make a difference.

I'm very sorry that the process failed you the way it did, and glad that in the end you came through and are together.

That being said, you really haven't contributed anything here. All you've really done is thrown turds on the table.

Perhaps nothing will come of people's efforts to change the system. Change is difficult and slow. But certainly nothing will change if everyone just resigns themselves to bending over and grabbing their ankles as you suggest.

Nobody's hurting you by trying to make things better. So why do you act so offended when others don't accept your advice to just bend over and take it?

You may view them as "turds on the table", but they are facts. Okay, you think you can make a difference then read through this entire thread.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3896

This is what came from mine and a few others research on how to fix a broken system. Kiyah, Chi and I, along with many others have worked very hard just to come to the realization that there is not much one can do to change the system. It is like an ant throwing pebbles at the feet of giants. They are just brushed away. What we did accomplish, that we didn't have, was a support group that was able to provide guidance through the process. Something we didn't have. Were we pissed off? Yes, but rather than blow it out of our a$$e$ on how we can make changes we researched and found out the normal process so that we could help others going through similar situations. We didn't change the system, we just understand it better now than we did when we started.

And please when you are done "changing the system", please come back and post your "I told you so" thread. If by chance you are able to make changes I will gladly say I was wrong.

[Donna A 4]

if i remember right when i filed for my husband vermont was flying while nebraska (where i filed) was moving at a turtles pace. i think its just the luck of the draw.

[Michele R 0]

I am not going to read through this entire thread. But I would like to take a moment to address that there are some that feel that we can actually make a difference. Let me give you a brief story of our journey.

I married in Morocco in Oct of 04. We filed for the CR1 in December of 04. My husbands interview was in Aug of 05. Sounds good so far, right? He was denied, as were many others here on VJ from the same consulate. We fought like He!!. Wrote letters, phone calls, emails, you name it we did it. Did anything in the process change? No. Do we wish this He!! on anyone else? No. Bottom line is you're banging your head against the wall. The system sucks, but we wasted our time and effort on methods that didn't work. The people that have the ability to change it, and that isn't us the little people, see this process in a different light that we do. They are trying to weed out the fraud. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to us, but they see the entire picture that we don't.

My husband finally got his visa in Dec of 06. And that was considered speedy for a returned petition. I know someone that had their interview a month before ours and her husband just got here last month. So I guess I get a little annoyed that there are those that are whining about their normal process taking a few extra months when I see that there are those that waited years with less complaints.

This is the process that is set in place. You have 2 choices here. Follow the process as is laid out by the USCIS/DOS or move to your fiance/spouse's country. I guess you will call me heartless because I have my husband here now. But the truth is that my spirit is broken because of this system. Post back here after you have fought the same battle that we have. Let's see if you have the same high hopes that you can make a difference.

I'm very sorry that the process failed you the way it did, and glad that in the end you came through and are together.

That being said, you really haven't contributed anything here. All you've really done is thrown turds on the table.

Perhaps nothing will come of people's efforts to change the system. Change is difficult and slow. But certainly nothing will change if everyone just resigns themselves to bending over and grabbing their ankles as you suggest.

Nobody's hurting you by trying to make things better. So why do you act so offended when others don't accept your advice to just bend over and take it?

You may view them as "turds on the table", but they are facts. Okay, you think you can make a difference then read through this entire thread.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3896

This is what came from mine and a few others research on how to fix a broken system. Kiyah, Chi and I, along with many others have worked very hard just to come to the realization that there is not much one can do to change the system. It is like an ant throwing pebbles at the feet of giants. They are just brushed away. What we did accomplish, that we didn't have, was a support group that was able to provide guidance through the process. Something we didn't have. Were we pissed off? Yes, but rather than blow it out of our a$$e$ on how we can make changes we researched and found out the normal process so that we could help others going through similar situations. We didn't change the system, we just understand it better now than we did when we started.

And please when you are done "changing the system", please come back and post your "I told you so" thread. If by chance you are able to make changes I will gladly say I was wrong.

These last few exchanges have been inspiring - maybe all of us insolent, whining, optimists should form a new thread called "turds on the table" or "we blow it out of our a$$e$ support group" so that we can stop attracting so much pious rage from other members who are intrigued by the name of this thread but have no interest in providing constructive input. Speaking of new ideas - has anyone tried submitting a FOIA in the past to understand more about why these different centers can go at such different speeds from time to time?

[endoftheroad 1]

... intrigued by the name of this thread...

I AM OUTRAGGED! I WISH I HAD THIS:

[EasternDE 35]

I am not going to read through this entire thread. But I would like to take a moment to address that there are some that feel that we can actually make a difference. Let me give you a brief story of our journey.

I married in Morocco in Oct of 04. We filed for the CR1 in December of 04. My husbands interview was in Aug of 05. Sounds good so far, right? He was denied, as were many others here on VJ from the same consulate. We fought like He!!. Wrote letters, phone calls, emails, you name it we did it. Did anything in the process change? No. Do we wish this He!! on anyone else? No. Bottom line is you're banging your head against the wall. The system sucks, but we wasted our time and effort on methods that didn't work. The people that have the ability to change it, and that isn't us the little people, see this process in a different light that we do. They are trying to weed out the fraud. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to us, but they see the entire picture that we don't.

My husband finally got his visa in Dec of 06. And that was considered speedy for a returned petition. I know someone that had their interview a month before ours and her husband just got here last month. So I guess I get a little annoyed that there are those that are whining about their normal process taking a few extra months when I see that there are those that waited years with less complaints.

This is the process that is set in place. You have 2 choices here. Follow the process as is laid out by the USCIS/DOS or move to your fiance/spouse's country. I guess you will call me heartless because I have my husband here now. But the truth is that my spirit is broken because of this system. Post back here after you have fought the same battle that we have. Let's see if you have the same high hopes that you can make a difference.

That's the typical "journey" if you want to bring your foreign spouse to France.

Actually 2 years and only 2 applications would even be lucky. Your visa request is usually denied 2 or 3 times before it -may- be approved. It's very common that one single visa process lasts more than 2 years.

Whoever takes care of your file has the entire right to deny your case without any reason. They usually say "secret government reason". You can't appeal. You can only try again, and spend the fee again, and I think there's even a delay before you can!

And after you get approved, you'll have to deal with the immigration services more than 10 years before you get a permanent residency card... Residency card that you'll have to renew after one year at first, then 3 years then 5, and so on. It's a neverending story.

Emmigration process in France are nothing like in the US, no nice site with online updates. You have to go to their office for real and do hours and hours of queues...

There's no clear rules, any agent can ask you any document any time and ask you to come back.

It's so broken and so slow that many times, people can get a one year visa that will expire in two weeks. (I've seen it through my own eyes)

And for sure, no nice brochure "Welcome to France"...

Whoever said that immigration procedures are much easier in Europe is very wrong...

Most of Europe is totally closed to any kind of immigration. France is "fighting" against family immigration because it represents 80% of our immigration right now...!

Unfortunatly, I know what you've been through. And I really know how it can break your spirit as you said.

I did fight against my own system for 3 years, and I finally gave up. It broke our couple. During those 3 years, I never had any justification, no explanation, just denial of everything we could try.

I actually never thought I could do this again... but when I see USCIS rules and process, it conforts me. It's nothing like what I've seen in my own country.

Of course, it has little failures like any system, but for the most cases, everything just go fine.

The entire world is into a "closing walls" process, I highly doubt this is going to get better anytime soon.

For now, I just feel VERY lucky I can hope to be with my american monkey within a year.

[Tinkerbell TX 0]

I don't think it's entirely necessary to file an FOIA to understand why the only 2 processing centers go at different speeds. Seems quite straight forward to me............one center is currently receiving more items to process than the other or those items being processed need more hands-on than normal (for example perhaps more RFE's are being sent out). At any rate, I still haven't seen anyone post their suggestions about how to make the system work more efficiently.......except for those who have added their experiences here. They give us tons of guidance on how to file the forms, what information is required, they answer our stupid questions, all so that our Visa experience goes smoother and quicker than theirs did. So, how about a little respect for those "old VJ'ers and some respect for the (I'm sure) overworked USCIS processors.

[sara..... 371]

I am not going to read through this entire thread. But I would like to take a moment to address that there are some that feel that we can actually make a difference. Let me give you a brief story of our journey.

I married in Morocco in Oct of 04. We filed for the CR1 in December of 04. My husbands interview was in Aug of 05. Sounds good so far, right? He was denied, as were many others here on VJ from the same consulate. We fought like He!!. Wrote letters, phone calls, emails, you name it we did it. Did anything in the process change? No. Do we wish this He!! on anyone else? No. Bottom line is you're banging your head against the wall. The system sucks, but we wasted our time and effort on methods that didn't work. The people that have the ability to change it, and that isn't us the little people, see this process in a different light that we do. They are trying to weed out the fraud. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to us, but they see the entire picture that we don't.

My husband finally got his visa in Dec of 06. And that was considered speedy for a returned petition. I know someone that had their interview a month before ours and her husband just got here last month. So I guess I get a little annoyed that there are those that are whining about their normal process taking a few extra months when I see that there are those that waited years with less complaints.

This is the process that is set in place. You have 2 choices here. Follow the process as is laid out by the USCIS/DOS or move to your fiance/spouse's country. I guess you will call me heartless because I have my husband here now. But the truth is that my spirit is broken because of this system. Post back here after you have fought the same battle that we have. Let's see if you have the same high hopes that you can make a difference.

I'm very sorry that the process failed you the way it did, and glad that in the end you came through and are together.

That being said, you really haven't contributed anything here. All you've really done is thrown turds on the table.

Perhaps nothing will come of people's efforts to change the system. Change is difficult and slow. But certainly nothing will change if everyone just resigns themselves to bending over and grabbing their ankles as you suggest.

Nobody's hurting you by trying to make things better. So why do you act so offended when others don't accept your advice to just bend over and take it?

You may view them as "turds on the table", but they are facts. Okay, you think you can make a difference then read through this entire thread.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3896

This is what came from mine and a few others research on how to fix a broken system. Kiyah, Chi and I, along with many others have worked very hard just to come to the realization that there is not much one can do to change the system. It is like an ant throwing pebbles at the feet of giants. They are just brushed away. What we did accomplish, that we didn't have, was a support group that was able to provide guidance through the process. Something we didn't have. Were we pissed off? Yes, but rather than blow it out of our a$$e$ on how we can make changes we researched and found out the normal process so that we could help others going through similar situations. We didn't change the system, we just understand it better now than we did when we started.

And please when you are done "changing the system", please come back and post your "I told you so" thread. If by chance you are able to make changes I will gladly say I was wrong.

These last few exchanges have been inspiring - maybe all of us insolent, whining, optimists should form a new thread called "turds on the table" or "we blow it out of our a$$e$ support group" so that we can stop attracting so much pious rage from other members who are intrigued by the name of this thread but have no interest in providing constructive input. Speaking of new ideas - has anyone tried submitting a FOIA in the past to understand more about why these different centers can go at such different speeds from time to time?

i think its more of a case of we have all tried one way or another and we all know that immigration is not fair but anything any of us have tried we found our selfs beating our heads again a brick wall, me and a few others have really suffered the unfairness of the service centers and when u find that even contacting the president does no good its hard to imagine what road anyone can take that will make a difference.

we all hope that u succeed where we have failed.

sara

[LoveWaits 1]

I have lived overseas as a foreigner and the process was not complicated or drawn out.. actually took just a few days. My fiance has also lived in Europe and she didn't go through any kind of lengthy process like the US. I see no reason for the process to take so long

One word: VOLUME. Si, man.

True. Nobody wants to immigrate to Europe.

Tell that to all the Turkish people immigrating to Germany every year. And judging from the lines at the Auslanderamt I'd beg to differ. I was married to a German so I know what the process was like 20 years ago (immigration to the US) and can tell you it was nowhere near the road block it is now.

Edited July 24, 2009 by LoveWaits

[daboyz 36]

I have lived overseas as a foreigner and the process was not complicated or drawn out.. actually took just a few days. My fiance has also lived in Europe and she didn't go through any kind of lengthy process like the US. I see no reason for the process to take so long

One word: VOLUME. Si, man.

True. Nobody wants to immigrate to Europe.

Tell that to all the Turkish people immigrating to Germany every year. And judging from the lines at the Auslanderamt I'd beg to differ. I was married to a German so I know what the process was like 20 years ago (immigration to the US) and can tell you it was nowhere near the road block it is now.

I was being sarcastic.

[Michele R 0]

I don't think it's entirely necessary to file an FOIA to understand why the only 2 processing centers go at different speeds. Seems quite straight forward to me............one center is currently receiving more items to process than the other or those items being processed need more hands-on than normal (for example perhaps more RFE's are being sent out). At any rate, I still haven't seen anyone post their suggestions about how to make the system work more efficiently.......except for those who have added their experiences here. They give us tons of guidance on how to file the forms, what information is required, they answer our stupid questions, all so that our Visa experience goes smoother and quicker than theirs did. So, how about a little respect for those "old VJ'ers and some respect for the (I'm sure) overworked USCIS processors.

I have never bashed the USCIS workers - nor do I intend to. As far as wisdom and guidance - Moroccoforever didn't even fill out a K-1 or provide any insight as to why there is a major discrepancy between the centers - which is what this thread is about. She seems to have had a bad experience with a consulate, which is unfortunate, but also off topic.

RE the FOIA, hopefully things are as straightforward as you suspect regarding these centers - but if it were, this is a problem that isn't too difficult to solve (send some files over the the less inundated center when the discrepancy gets to be more than two months different) and I am not sure why it persists year after year. The reason I am asking about the FOIA is to avoid filing one if someone already has the answer from them. I think it may be possible to get farther with the Ombudsman if one's letter included some real solutions on how things could work better. I am going to approach my old MBA operations professor with the facts (if I can find them, not the "facts" that Moroccoforever refers to or the collection of bad experiences everyone posts here) and see what he has to say. My grad school, which was international, dealt with this issue all of the time and may be interested in working on coming up with a constructive solution for evening out workloads.

[daboyz 36]

I don't think it's entirely necessary to file an FOIA to understand why the only 2 processing centers go at different speeds. Seems quite straight forward to me............one center is currently receiving more items to process than the other or those items being processed need more hands-on than normal (for example perhaps more RFE's are being sent out). At any rate, I still haven't seen anyone post their suggestions about how to make the system work more efficiently.......except for those who have added their experiences here. They give us tons of guidance on how to file the forms, what information is required, they answer our stupid questions, all so that our Visa experience goes smoother and quicker than theirs did. So, how about a little respect for those "old VJ'ers and some respect for the (I'm sure) overworked USCIS processors.

I have never bashed the USCIS workers - nor do I intend to. As far as wisdom and guidance - Moroccoforever didn't even fill out a K-1 or provide any insight as to why there is a major discrepancy between the centers - which is what this thread is about. She seems to have had a bad experience with a consulate, which is unfortunate, but also off topic.

RE the FOIA, hopefully things are as straightforward as you suspect regarding these centers - but if it were, this is a problem that isn't too difficult to solve (send some files over the the less inundated center when the discrepancy gets to be more than two months different) and I am not sure why it persists year after year. The reason I am asking about the FOIA is to avoid filing one if someone already has the answer from them. I think it may be possible to get farther with the Ombudsman if one's letter included some real solutions on how things could work better. I am going to approach my old MBA operations professor with the facts (if I can find them, not the "facts" that Moroccoforever refers to or the collection of bad experiences everyone posts here) and see what he has to say. My grad school, which was international, dealt with this issue all of the time and may be interested in working on coming up with a constructive solution for evening out workloads.

They did that last year. Vermont was transferring all the IR-1/CR-1s to California for a period of time. Some people were waiting a year just for NOA2.

[sara..... 371]

from what i have seen in two years, the ombudsmen does not have the power to do anything he can inquire about a case but he holds no real power

if u have aggressive congressman or senators they seem to be able to get more done than ombudsmen.

the point is really it is not in the best interest of any servicer center to fix a broken system.

they are accountable only to them self.

u can think they are much like the FBI and CIA above the law and only accountable with in its own agency.

just my opinion after fighting this system for two years

sara