Staying in the USA while her Canadian PR paperwork goes through?

[Jacob D. 0]

It's so hard to say, Jacob. This rule is kinda obscure. It's really all up to the CBP USBP officers. If they feel you are spending too much time in one country, and it appears you are immigrating, they may refuse you entry even if your intention is not to do so.

Whatever you decide to do, if she files for PR in Canada you can go visit her a lot, just not as much as you are probably thinking.

I wouldn't stay a solid 6 months, but that is just my opinion. People have done it and been okay, some people have done it and gotten refused re-entry to the US after that. It's really up to you.

Just to add to what theTreble is saying, if you ever do go through US immigration, you'll need to list all your visits to the US and how long they were. This is where having an overstay could potentially hurt you. They will see that you stayed over 6 months and this could cause you to need a waiver or get banned. I mean nothing is for sure, because the rules are a bit obscure, but it's one of those things that's not worth the risk if you ask me.

Now, forgive me if this has already been answered and I just didn't get it, but what if I stayed on my passport while the Fiancee visa goes through, and once we get that, exit and re-enter the country on that and get legally married? Essentially, 'cohabitate' as far as the government is concerned until the visa comes. Or is the timeline for getting the fiancee visa the same as a spousal?

Or, alternatively, exit 6 months in, and re-enter after a week or so with solid proof (like a lease agreement, job orders, her Canadian PR application, etc...) that we intend to come back to Canada - all without getting a visa?

I'm sorry if my questions are seeming redundant, but I just want to make sure I understand this. We are planning to speak to a lawyer, as well, but it is good to talk with people who know the process from having done it!

[Krikit 1,164]

Now, forgive me if this has already been answered and I just didn't get it, but what if I stayed on my passport while the Fiancee visa goes through, and once we get that, exit and re-enter the country on that and get legally married? Essentially, 'cohabitate' as far as the government is concerned until the visa comes. Or is the timeline for getting the fiancee visa the same as a spousal?

Or, alternatively, exit 6 months in, and re-enter after a week or so with solid proof (like a lease agreement, job orders, her Canadian PR application, etc...) that we intend to come back to Canada - all without getting a visa?

I'm sorry if my questions are seeming redundant, but I just want to make sure I understand this. We are planning to speak to a lawyer, as well, but it is good to talk with people who know the process from having done it!

It's okay. Each question asked gains clarity for you, as well as brings up points and issues which have not yet surfaced.

Your marriage date is August 1st. Even if you were to apply, today, without any setbacks like a request for evidence (RFE) or lost documentation, you still wouldn't have a K-1 visa in your hands until December at the very earliest. So scratch that plan.

Your main hurdles are still going to be at the border. Either the officer is going to let you in, or they aren't. It's a ####### shoot. No one here can tell you that, yes, if you do this and this and that, they will let you in. We don't know that because we are not the CBP Officer scrutinizing you at the border. You may get in, you may not get in. You need to be aware of the chances of this happening and have a Plan B.

[SapphireDreams 71]

The timeline for a K1 visa is anywhere from 8-12 months right now, so it would be impossible to stay the whole time. Teh K1 visa also requires to be in Canada to get some of the steps done (immigration medical for example must be done in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver..) and then the interview is either in Vancouver or Montreal. And, when you do enter with a K1 you can't leave again until after you get your AOS papers (advanced parole) or your green card.

So if you are wanting to live in Canada, a K1 visa is a waste of time and money.

Staying a solid 6 months and then trying to re-enter a week later is a risk. There is no way to know for sure if they will let you back in. We are not border guards. Plus, like others have said, you are allowed 6 months in a 12 month period. So technically leaving and re-entering doesn't necessarily re-start your 6 months again.

The issue here is that you are visiting for a long period of time, which makes a border guard suspicious. There is no way to know for sure how much trouble you will have crossing.

Recently there was a member who crossed together with his fiance for a 3 month visit and they were definitely questioned a lot. The only thing that saved them was that they are in the middle of the K1 process, waiting for an interview. So, they were let through. I'm not sure how forgiving a US border guard would be to someone waiting out the Canadian immigration process on a visit to the US. I've never seen that scenario.

[trailmix 77]

I'm sorry if my questions are seeming redundant, but I just want to make sure I understand this. We are planning to speak to a lawyer, as well, but it is good to talk with people who know the process from having done it!

As krikit said, there is really nothing wrong with your plan - you just need a Plan B as well.

As for speaking with a lawyer, not a horrible idea - but please, after you do, come back and check here to see if the info you got was valid

[Krikit 1,164]

As for speaking with a lawyer, not a horrible idea - but please, after you do, come back and check here to see if the info you got was valid

[Jacob D. 0]

As for speaking with a lawyer, not a horrible idea - but please, after you do, come back and check here to see if the info you got was valid

I have to refrain from making a lawyer joke here because I am marrying one! In our defense, though, she is not interested in being a firm lawyer; she wants to use her education and degree for policy analysis and research.

We talked this over this afternoon, and unless we have misunderstood the Canadian immigration system, we think we will be able to do this within the six month period. The main reason for doing 9 months instead of 6 was to a)allow for more time for her PR status to go through, and B) so we wouldn't have to move in the middle of a school year. However, most people seem to agree that out-of-country applications go through in under 6 months, and I can be flexible with school because it is not campus-based. So, this is our new plan,

August 1, Get married (legally!)

August 1-17, Honeymoon in States

August 17-September 14, Honeymoon and visit in Canada; file her paperwork immediately.

September 14 - February 13, live in MI on my passport under VWP, wait for her PR status to clear.

February 14, return to Canada.

I think this would work, but there are a number of potential things I see that might get in the way:

1) convincing the Canadian side that we are not permanently moving to Canada immediately after the wedding,

2) convincing the American side that I don't intend to stay longer than 6 months after we return from the Canadian leg of the Honeymoon,

3) not being allowed to stay for six months because I have visited already. I will have been in the US for a total of three weeks when we get married, + the 17 days we'll be spending in Boston.

I know that you can't gaze into the crystal ball to tell me exactly what will happen, but for the first two I have an idea of how to answer so you can tell me if it is adequate in your opinion, and the 3rd one just tell me if it might be a problem.

1) We will sign a six month lease on an apartment in MI in her name starting in September. I bet there is more that we can do to show we intend to return, but I can't think of anything at the moment.

2) We will have evidence that we have filed for her PR status, as well as evidence and pictures of my business and shop, along with, potentially, a lease agreement on an apartment starting in February. (My dad has apartments, so even if we ultimately don't end up there, at least we have an agreement in principle. I don't know if the fact that he is a family member will do anything.)

Thanks so much for all your help, you guys are all awesome!

[Krikit 1,164]

That sounds like a workable plan, Jacob. I wish you luck. Come back and let us know how it worked out for you.

[thetreble 19]

But Canadians don't qualify for VWP do they?

[trailmix 77]

But Canadians don't qualify for VWP do they?

No, but I think he just meant our non VWP...program.

Good luck!

[Moosker 7]

Jacob, don't over stay!!! It's not worth the hassle, I've heard horror stories, and you'd rather be apart from your wife than not be allowed back into the U.S. for a number of years. I went back & forth with my husband since October. I quit my job and would go visit for a month or so and then come back for a few weeks. ($100 roundtrip tickets made that one possible!) But don't risk it by over staying.

CR1 sounds like your best bet. That's what we did, and I NEVER had a problem at the border, but I constantly had proof of my ties back to Canada. Definitely research your options, all us VJ'ers with experience are always here to help!

P.S. (Another friend I went to school with did the same thing) After our "Canadian Wedding" we went across the border in separate cars for our honeymoon flight. Right after crossing the border we met up, flew out to Florida, spent a week there, and then I came back to Canada 3 weeks later. So nothing illegal, but sometimes it's just better for less questions to be asked, even IF you're completely truthful about going back home to BC after.

Best of luck!

Edited June 2, 2009 by Moosker

[wowswift 3]

People on road2canada have filed outland applications inside of Canada (i suppose for two reasons, outland you can appeal, inland you cannot and also you can leave and not ruin your inland app by not being let back in for the interview), so it is doable since you send everything in the beginning anyways, but have to return to the US for interview. I guess what they did was prove they sent the support part of the process and brought that letter with them when crossing. maybe ask your plan over there (road2canada.com).

[Reba 2]

Candians are not part of the visa waiver programme. Full stop. Canadian visitor status is an entirely different animal, which has no fancy USCIS name other than "Canadian visitor".

Why would they bother to go thru the whole CR1 process if they intend to settle in Canada? Waste of time, money and paper that would be.

Yes, you can file the Canadian PR application as "outland" and she can be physically in Canada at the time, and can remain in Canada for the duration if she desires. Then once the application is approved, she can "flagpole" at the border for her official landing. (interviews are rare AFAIK). See the info and the forums at http://roadtocanada.com for Canadian immigration information

Good luck with the back and forth thing before and after the wedding. You might not want to be travelling with the tux slung over your shoulder, regardless of your intentions, CBP is going to assume you'll be staying illegally. Spending money on a wedding before you've got immigration sorted usually ends up with the bride in tears stranded somewhere without a groom unfortunately. BTDT myself As have a few others here on this site, and Road To Canada. And my husband and I were going on information and advice given to us by the wonderful employees at Canadian Immigration.

[Krikit 1,164]

Spending money on a wedding before you've got immigration sorted usually ends up with the bride in tears stranded somewhere without a groom unfortunately. BTDT myself As have a few others here on this site, and Road To Canada. And my husband and I were going on information and advice given to us by the wonderful employees at Canadian Immigration.

What happened, Reba?