IMBRA Marriage Broker

[Dean iWait 0]

I disagree, but so what.

If that's what your lawyer told you for your situtation, then by all means, you should follow his advice.

More generally, I think if Match.com is exempt it's because Match.com doesn't meet the definition in the statute, not because IAC/Interactive does or doesn't.

True, it doesn't really matter but I love a debate. My lawyer certainly addressed my personal situation. But he also volunteered quite a bit of legal interpretation (more than I really wanted since I was paying by the half hour LOL) of why site like match and yahoo personal are excempt. And why the site I met my fiance is an IMB. And Match is certainly involved heavily in international matchmaking. Just click the link.

http://www.match.com/international/index.aspx

[shimmy 0]

A friendly discourse is a healthy thing. I am curious of one thing, when you spoke with your lawyer did you speak of the implications of giving an affirmative response to the marriage broker question in a country such as the Philippines where using a marriage broker is illegal? Thank you.

[Barry2005 0]

I have a feeling it won't be too restrictive. The law could definitely use some more restrictive language, but at the same time the law as it is written now can also lead to a loose interpretation with possibly a negative effect towards people that met online. The interesting part will be in the details regarding when the law actually went into effect and whether or not you met before the "cutoff date" matters. I have heard many conflicting opinions on this. The problem is, the people that will be making decisions on our cases do not know how to interpret this new law so it is likely there will be many initial errors on their behalf which will negativley impact the guinea pigs.

The big question I have is: When is the cutoff date? Is it March 5 or Was it a few monthes earlier when Bush signed it into law?

[Lewis 0]

Exactly! that is a serious question with no clear answer yet.

[Dean iWait 0]

A friendly discourse is a healthy thing. I am curious of one thing, when you spoke with your lawyer did you speak of the implications of giving an affirmative response to the marriage broker question in a country such as the Philippines where using a marriage broker is illegal? Thank you.

No he didn't say any thing about that.

He said as long as we could document that we had been corresponding by email, phone records and letters etc. prior to 3/6/06 that we would be just fine.

Not really sure the Philippines Marriage Broker and hadn't heard anything about it prior to this. I'm really only able to deal with one IMBRA at a time LOL!

[shimmy 0]

Not really sure the Philippines Marriage Broker and hadn't heard anything about it prior to this. I'm really only able to deal with one IMBRA at a time LOL!

Yup, it really is alot of information to deal with. I just have been curious how applications will be handled if one states they have met through a marriage broker in a country where they are illegal. I guess we will all find out in a few months..heheheh.

[Dean iWait 0]

Not really sure the Philippines Marriage Broker and hadn't heard anything about it prior to this. I'm really only able to deal with one IMBRA at a time LOL!

Yup, it really is alot of information to deal with. I just have been curious how applications will be handled if one states they have met through a marriage broker in a country where they are illegal. I guess we will all find out in a few months..heheheh.

Yes we will, as far as I know the Phillipines Goverment has no part in a K-1 application. And I imagine that their idea of a marriage broker is probably much different than the US definition. Do you have any more information on this Philippines law?

[Dean iWait 0]

A little info I found on asawa.org. Sorry Bharan, we seem to have hijacked your thread here.

Finally, another reason to avoid the label "mail-order-bride company" is that the Philippines passed a law a while back the prohibited mail-order-bride companies from operating inside the islands, and since many of these companies do at least some legwork in the Philippines, they wisely do not portray themselves as that kind of business. It seems like one of those laws that is never enforced (at least I've never heard of it being enforced), but why take chances?

8: All Filipina "introduction services" are in reality illegal "mail order bride" companies. FICTION

Comment: In the Philippines, such companies are only illegal if they charge a fee or if the host country cannot protect the Filipina's rights. Republic Act Republic Act No. 6955, with notes, states:

"AN ACT TO DECLARE UNLAWFUL THE PRACTICE OF MATCHING FILIPINO WOMEN FOR MARRIAGE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS ON A MAIL-ORDER BASIS AND OTHER SIMILAR PRACTICES, INCLUDING THE ADVERTISEMENT, PUBLICATION, PRINTING OR DISTRIBUTION OF BROCHURES, FLIERS AND OTHER PROPAGANDA MATERIALS IN FURTHERANCE THEREOF AND PROVIDING PENALTY THEREFOR" APPROVED: June 13, 1990

Bans marriage matching for a fee as well as exportation of domestic workers to certain countries which cannot ensure the protection of their rights. Fiancées of foreign nationals are required to attend guidance and counseling sessions through a Department of Foreign Affairs order so as to minimize inter-racial marital problems.

FYI, the owner of a business with an interest in the matter wrote me to add the following: "...a while back I engaged an attorney to research this to find out what is what, because the republic act concerning this is only a condensed version and I wanted details. As it was explained to him from a individual in the Dept of Foreign Relations and a law maker, the law only holds up if a fee is charged to a women in the Philippines and if the word 'marriage' is employed to mean those arrangements are predisposed from the beginning. We cannot solicit cold or advertise. So, since these services are U.S. based and charge no fee to the women, it seems to be legal, but they do not want us promising marriage (which cannot be done anyway). We are also required to advise the women of their rights in the U.S. The reason for this law was that there were services from other countries that were allowing men to bring brides to their countries sight unseen without each of them seeing or knowing each other beforehand. Needless to say, many of these women got into bad situations. In The U.S. this is not possible as INS regulations state that both parties must meet in person at least once before a fiancée visa will be issued. This law was really initiated because of the abuse many Filipinas received from employers in foreign countries. The Japanese were bringing women to their country and forcing them into prostitution and sometimes took life insurance contracts out on them and had them killed. Pretty bad stuff. We also tell our women their rights in the U.S. and we do from time to time get guys who are looking for a sex partner for awhile and we smell these sleaze bags out real fast. We arrange introductions to single women and promise nothing as it is up to them to follow through. We do this to conform to the laws. "

[aussiewench 9]

(B ) EXCEPTIONS. Such term does not include

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual's

gender or country of citizenship.

If the site where you met is not for the purpose of providing meetings between primarily US citizens & foreigners, it is exempt from the IMBRA........in other words, if anyone regardless of their country of citizenship or gender are able to use the site on an equal pegging. The exemptions really are quite clear. Here is an example of some questions you could ask yourself to determine if it applies.....

(i)

Is the site of a cultural or religious nature that is non profit and operates under the laws of the country in which it operates, including the laws of the US?

or

(ii)

Is the site 'only' or 'primarily' for US citizens to meet foreigners?

Is the site for 'all' regardless of country of citizenship and gender?

Does the site offer the same service regardless of country of citizenship or gender?

Edited July 2, 2006 by aussiewench

[shimmy 0]

Yup, it seems like we have taken this thread slightly of course..hehehe.

What you found is basically the extent of my knowledge concerning how the Philippine law views marriage brokers.

One part of me says there is nothing to worry about if one checks "yes" another part worries that there will be a draconian response

I guess the important thing is to emphasize when checking "yes" or if one met online and checks "no"

is to state that your fiance didnt pay a fee.

Its all very confusing and I dont think we will find out until the cases are processed.

[aussiewench 9]

I guess the important thing is to emphasize when checking "yes" or if one met online and checks "no"

is to state that your fiance didnt pay a fee.

The payment of a fee in itself does not classify a site as a marriage broker under the IMBRA if everyone regardless of country of citizenship or gender is able to participate in the site and the fee that may or is required to be paid is the same for all.

[shimmy 0]

The payment of a fee in itself does not classify a site as a marriage broker under the IMBRA if everyone regardless of country of citizenship or gender is able to participate in the site and the fee that may or is required to be paid is the same for all.

As it was explained to him from a individual in the Dept of Foreign Relations and a law maker, the law only holds up if a fee is charged to a women in the Philippines

Yup, I was thinking more along the lines that it was an important distinction in the eyes of philippine law whether a filipino citizen did or did not pay a fee.

[Dean iWait 0]

Yup, it seems like we have taken this thread slightly of course..hehehe.

What you found is basically the extent of my knowledge concerning how the Philippine law views marriage brokers.

One part of me says there is nothing to worry about if one checks "yes" another part worries that there will be a draconian response

I guess the important thing is to emphasize when checking "yes" or if one met online and checks "no"

is to state that your fiance didnt pay a fee.

Its all very confusing and I dont think we will find out until the cases are processed.

Yes I have those same worries in answering yes that somebody down the road will say "Ahaahh! Denied!". But I think we will be ok. As for those couples who meet after 3/06/06. I really worry for them since some of the sites that are IMB's are stating that they are not. I'm really not to worried about the Filipino law.

[aclassic 0]

Not really sure the Philippines Marriage Broker and hadn't heard anything about it prior to this. I'm really only able to deal with one IMBRA at a time LOL!

Yup, it really is alot of information to deal with. I just have been curious how applications will be handled if one states they have met through a marriage broker in a country where they are illegal. I guess we will all find out in a few months..heheheh.

Yes we will, as far as I know the Phillipines Goverment has no part in a K-1 application. And I imagine that their idea of a marriage broker is probably much different than the US definition. Do you have any more information on this Philippines law?

I can tell you one thing about the Philippines. The petitioner (K1 Visa) must attend classes (CFO) where they pretty much trash American Men and try and talk the petitioner out of the marriage. The petitioner must have her passport stamped by the CFO before she is permitted to leave the country.

[Bharat 0]

One of the exceptions to the rule, is that those companies that are linked by culture or religion are exempt from the IMBRA. As a result, most of these international sites, such as in the Phillipines, bharatmatrimony...and etc...should be exempt. what is ur thoughts?