Doing the whole dual citizen thing......

[lgg 2]

Man, I am SOOOOO far from even making this decision but... how exactly does one obtain dual citizenship? Does it mean that I can hold a Canadian AND US passport?

Your info is appreciated.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Yes, you would be a citizen of both countries and would hold a passport for both countries. The one thing to remember though, is that you use the passport of citizenship to enter and leave the country in which you are a citizen, so you would use your US passport to leave and enter the US. Canada doesn't care since it recognizes both citizenships but you could certainly use your Canadian passport in Canada - and the rest of the world - just not the US.

I just found out another good incentive to take out US citizenship if you are married to a US citizen. If something happens to your spouse and they die you are not treated the same way as if you were also a US citizen. You have to pay tax on your spouse's estate when they die - you don't just get to inherit. IRS is concerned that non-US spouses will leave the US so they tax their inheritances/estates at the time of receipt if their partner dies so they don't lose the money. That can be a real financial hardship on someone. As well, you cannot collect as a survivor on your spouse's social security if you are a non-US citizen and choose to leave the US.

[Reba 2]

Yeah, but then if you do get citizenship and your spouse pre-deceases you and you move back to Canada, you have to file taxes with the IRS until You die.

I don't like that idea. Greedy, nosey buggers.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

you file taxes - you don't necessarily have to pay taxes due to the Canada-US tax treaty. I'd rather file taxes than have to pay them on everything we own if my husband dies.

[Flames9_RN 358]

Yeah, but then if you do get citizenship and your spouse pre-deceases you and you move back to Canada, you have to file taxes with the IRS until You die.

I don't like that idea. Greedy, nosey buggers.

can always give back ur USA citizenship! And I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get double taxed anyway thanks to treaties!

Edited June 13, 2009 by flames9

[neiks 19]

I just found out another good incentive to take out US citizenship if you are married to a US citizen. If something happens to your spouse and they die you are not treated the same way as if you were also a US citizen. You have to pay tax on your spouse's estate when they die - you don't just get to inherit. IRS is concerned that non-US spouses will leave the US so they tax their inheritances/estates at the time of receipt if their partner dies so they don't lose the money. That can be a real financial hardship on someone. As well, you cannot collect as a survivor on your spouse's social security if you are a non-US citizen and choose to leave the US.

I never knew any of this. Kathyrn, where can I get more info on this? Knowing this we need to do some serious estate planning. Does anyone know if your US spouse dies does the estate automatically go to the surviving spouse if there is no will?

Could be a pretty compelling reason to get US citizenship - especially that I do plan on moving back to Canada after I retire - well summers in Canada and winters somewhere hot!

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Hi Neiks,

Here is some information I have found on it. I was told about this by other Canadians living in the US: http://www.hg.org/articles/article_1031.html, http://www.thefreelibrary.com/U.S.+estate+...nals-a062725164 and an excerpt from the latter:

"Most married U.S. citizens can avoid the imposition of the estate tax by leaving assets to their spouse. Assuming the assets qualify for the Sec. 2056 marital deduction, they will pass to the surviving spouse untaxed income exempt and will be subject to tax only on the surviving spouse's death. Thus, the effect of a premature or unexpected death can be mitigated by leaving $675,000 (i.e., the lifetime exemption) to children or other relatives, and the balance to the spouse.

Unfortunately, the same strategy is not available to a decedent whose spouse is not a U.S. citizen. Under Sec. 2056(d)(1)(A), the marital deduction is not allowed for bequests to noncitizen spouses; thus, the estate may be subject to substantial transfer taxes, despite the fact that the assets pass to the surviving spouse. Further, the treatment of jointly held property is also disadvantageous in the case of noncitizen spouses. For two U.S. citizen spouses, under Sec. 2040(B),jointly owned property is deemed to be owned 50% by each, regardless of who provided the funds for the property's acquisition. Thus, only 50% of the value of such property is includible in the decedent's gross estate. Because of the surviving spouse's right of survivorship the asset transfer is generally eligible for the marital deduction. If the surviving spouse is not a U.S. citizen, Sec. 2056(d)(1)(B) provides that Sec. 2040(a), not Sec. 2040(B), applies; thus, the entire value of jointly owned property is included in the estate, unless it can be proven that the surviving spouse furnished a portion of the asset's acquisition cost. Moreover, the marital deduction does not apply.

Thus, an estate may be subject to tax on the entire value of jointly held assets, even though such assets were (1) accumulated prior to arrival in the U.S. and (2) acquired with the surviving spouse's personal funds, unless Sec. 2040(a) documentation requirements are met."

Edited June 13, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Malrothien 6]

Yeah, but then if you do get citizenship and your spouse pre-deceases you and you move back to Canada, you have to file taxes with the IRS until You die.

I don't like that idea. Greedy, nosey buggers.

As a US citizen living in Canada, I carry zeros every year on my US tax return - which is also due on June 15, not April 15. It's easy, two pages, and not a big deal.

[vanee 13]

I feel the same as a lot of members here. I will always be << nationality of country of birth >> first. But the US makes dual citizenship for people in our situation the only option if we want to remove the risk of being deported and separated from our spouses and to avoid the estate tax problems mentioned above. I also don't want to say a vow when I don't mean a certain part of it, but the US government created this predicament. Since we can keep our citizenship of birth, that part loses its meaning anyway.

A sort of parallel is something I remember reading here. A VJ member didn't want to get married, just to live with her partner for as long as they both wanted to be together. With one of them American and the US as the country of choice for the both of them, getting married was the only option. She probably didn't mean the "till death do us part" part of the marriage vows because it didn't fit with her and her partner's thinking, but she had to say it. (Unless they wrote their own vows, but we don't get to do that for the citizenship oath.)

Rationalization helps, but it still bothers me.

[Reba 2]

you file taxes - you don't necessarily have to pay taxes due to the Canada-US tax treaty. I'd rather file taxes than have to pay them on everything we own if my husband dies.

I'm aware of that. I still think they're being greedy nosey buggers.

can always give back ur USA citizenship! And I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get double taxed anyway thanks to treaties!

From a couple of members over at CanuckAbroad who have actually tried to renounce their US citizenship, It Is Not The Least Bit Easy. It is not a simple process, and quite often the application to renounce is denied, even for naturalized citizens. Which is another reason I likely will not ever even apply for naturalization.

I honestly do not care what happens with taxes if my husband were to pre-decease me. I'll be packed up and out of here just as quickly as I can. I didn't marry him for his money, so the government can have it if they want it.

[cdngrl 0]

Gosh, I will have a very hard time saying that dang oath. After reading these posts, I can definitely see more incentives for becoming a US citizen, though. I heard also that if you retire in the US and are not America, you cannot collect your social security. Is this true? Gosh I sure hope we live in Canada by then, but you never know!

[Hugglebuggles 60]

To be completely contradictory, I've been in the US for less than 2 days and as much as I love it here, I will always be Canadian first. Its hard to explain, its just... me. Its home. Its who I am. I still have no problems getting US citizenship but, always Canadian first. You guys were right! And I don't admit I'm wrong very often

[Flames9_RN 358]

I have my USA citizenship--and to be honestly, I totally forget that I have it,lol! Only time it dons on me is when we travel and I need the passport.

[Reba 2]

Gosh, I will have a very hard time saying that dang oath. After reading these posts, I can definitely see more incentives for becoming a US citizen, though. I heard also that if you retire in the US and are not America, you cannot collect your social security. Is this true? Gosh I sure hope we live in Canada by then, but you never know!

If you work (legally) in the US up til you retire, you are most definitely entitled to Social Security benefits. And if you worked enough years in Canada before you left, you'd also get CPP benefits.

[Mephys 2]

Honestly, the only reason I would and probably will when the time comes is because we plan on having kids.... and I want to have the same citizenship as my kids and never risk the chance of being deported / having the family split up.

Shame on me if you want....but I am planning to get my US citizenship for the same reason as JillA. Shame on me for the fact that I believe it's only words, and even if I swear on it, doesn't mean I give a damn... Call it lying, call it acting, call it whatever you want, I will just make it look real, but it's not really bothering me that bad. Canadian I am and always will be.