Married To A German :)

[veronicavonn 7]

Yeah, I don't even know all of those things, ravenscroft! haha.

I do know that I WILL miss the beer once we move back. I know that there is Spaten beer in California, but I didnt see anything else (where I'm from) prior to moving here.

Anyways, welcome to the forums ravenscroft!

[ravenscroft 3]

Yeah, I don't even know all of those things, ravenscroft! haha.

I do know that I WILL miss the beer once we move back. I know that there is Spaten beer in California, but I didnt see anything else (where I'm from) prior to moving here.

Anyways, welcome to the forums ravenscroft!

I am in California too and we can get some German beer here (Warsteiner, Erdinger, Franziskaner, Bitburger, etc...). BevMo has a decent selection and Trader Joes has some too. The good thing about California is that there are so many good craft breweries as well.

Why move back? I would love to live in Germany, but my wife loves it here too much.

[veronicavonn 7]

Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy Germany. But my husband has been dreaming of living in California ever since we met, and there isn't work for me here! It's nearly impossible for me to find work, as I've been searching for almost 2 years now! Drives me crraaazzy.

And, I am from northern California. About 8 hours north of Los Angeles. From a very small town between Chico & Redding.

[Otto 83]

Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy Germany. But my husband has been dreaming of living in California ever since we met, and there isn't work for me here! It's nearly impossible for me to find work, as I've been searching for almost 2 years now! Drives me crraaazzy.

I'm curious (I'm Otto actually, the US citizen in our duet), what some of the hurdles you had to go through to find work in Germany as a US citizen (obviously there's high unemployment there but besides that)?

(We've always entertained moving back to Germany so I'm curious.)

[veronicavonn 7]

Well, first and foremost, you will need to learn German.

Hypothetically speaking, "when" you move here, you would have to go to your local Landesamt and apply for a "Residence Permit" (Aufenhalstitel) which allows you to live here with your German spouse. When you are married to a German Citizen, you will typically get a Work Permit attached with your residence permit, which is what I have.

Depending on where you live and who you are speaking with (they have their good/bad days), you may get a residence permit anywhere between 6 months - 5 years. My first residence permit was for 1 year. They told me that I would need to learn German in order to extend my permit the following year. They gave me a paper from their office saying that I was "eligible" to participate in the German Integration Course. MANY EU citizens (not German) who move to Germany get this paid for by the state, or at least get the subsidized rate. However, being an American, you will only get the subsidized rate if your German spouse is currently unemployed, or under other occasions like that. And even then, you have to jump through hoops to get it. In my case, (family of four: I have two stepkids) we were NOT approved for the subsidized rate and we did NOT have the money to pay for this. Which is typically 1200/euros ++. (In the integration course, you meet Monday-Friday, anywhere between 4-8 hours.)

Luckily I learned just enough German with books, online programs, and through my husband/stepkids/friends here in Germany. When I went to the Landesamt in October 2009 to extend my residence permit, I was able to have a simple conversation with the woman whom I met with. However, at that time I had been signed up for a "crash-course" short-term German Course at the local "high school" (VolkHochSchule). These classes are by no means anywhere close to covering as much as the integration course, but it was better than nothing. This class was only about 65 Euros. (This are one or two times a week, and only for 2 hours each time.)

At my meeting for extention, because I spoke enough German and was signed up for that course, I got my residence permit extended for 2 years. I will have to go back in October 2011 (if we're still here) for an extention again. Funny enough though, two weeks later when I went to my first day at that German course I signed up for, I was sitting alone in the classroom where it was supposed to be, waiting and waiting. Nobody ever showed up and nobody in the building could give me any information. Almost a week later, I got a letter in the mail telling me that the course was cancelled because there were not enough members! ugh!

Anyways, my point is that you will need to learn German. The odds of you getting a REAL, GOOD job in Germany WITHOUT German are very unlikely. Unless, of course, you get a job with an ínternational (American) company, or the US militaries, and you are hired from the states, prior to moving here.

Unfortunately for me, I don't even live in an area where there are a lot of international companies. I do live next to an Army base though, BUT once you get your residence permit/work permit for Germany, you're screwed! You CANNOT work on an Army base and I didn't know that until it was too late.

When you cannot speak German, and don't have a university degree (like me!), it's very hard to find a job here. In the states, you can apply for a job and say that you are qualified purely on experience that you have learned on the job. In Germany, you cannot do that. They want you to go to school for EVERYTHING. I've worked multiple jobs in sales (department stores, specialty shops, etc) when I lived in California, but they want me to do an "Ausbildung" (on the job learning; you get paid ######) for the job here. I was a Legal Secretary for almost 2 years prior to moving to Germany. My experience in that job has no relevance here as I did not learn it in school. However, if you have learned German and have a master's degree, you'll be way better off than I have been.

I would say the next "hurdle" is your driver's license. Each US State has a different agreement with Germany. Some say all you have to do is pay the fee for the German d/l. Some say you have to take the written test, but not the theory. And some say you have to take the theory, but not the written. And THEN you get the ones with NO agreement whatsover. Now, if you ask your German spouse, she will tell you that getting a d/l in Germany is VERY expensive! Unfortunately, I come from California, and of course California does NOT have an agreement. So I have to take the written, and the theory. And if the person that I drive with decides I am a bad driver, I will then have to go to driving school which costs about 2000/euros +++. Crazy!

After doing a quick search online, I see that Texas (where I believe you live) also does NOT have any agreements.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I got on a roll, I guess. hehe. But if you have any other questions about Germany that your cannot ask your spouse, and you want an "ex-pat" view on it, then feel free to ask.

[Aubrey 10]

Well, first and foremost, you will need to learn German.

Hypothetically speaking, "when" you move here, you would have to go to your local Landesamt and apply for a "Residence Permit" (Aufenhalstitel) which allows you to live here with your German spouse. When you are married to a German Citizen, you will typically get a Work Permit attached with your residence permit, which is what I have.

Here are a couple of links that may be helpful to this conversation. My husband and I have looked into this ourselves before deciding on his move to the U.S. We still consider a move to Germany at some point. My German is zero right now, but I have two university degrees so we figured I would do OK if I picked up some basic German before heading over. Regardless, this isn't in our cards for many years, at the least. Hopefully the info helps though.

http://www.integration-in-deutschland.de/S...ug-flyer-en.pdf -- page 2 lists the exceptions to the German language requirement. Note that 1) university degree and 2) being a U.S. citizen both exempt you...

http://www.toronto.diplo.de/Vertretung/tor...er__spouse.html - basic information (not detailed) about how to get a residence permit

Edited February 25, 2010 by Aubrey

[veronicavonn 7]

Thanks for the links, Aubrey.

I actually know that we are exempt. However, I am a part of a website called "ToyTownGermany" which is for English-speakers living in Germany. There are MANY US citizens (as well is Brits, NZ's, Australia, South Africans, etc, etc) on the website. There have been US Citizens who have posted on those forums about having their Landesamt make them PROVE that they speak anywhere from an A1-B1 level of German! I know that sounds silly, but I'm not the one working at the Landesamt "making" the rules. (You can search the forums and find those posts, and then see the other Americans saying "No, we are exempt." and showing the rule.

I think it's just good to know what you are going to be dealing with when/if you get here. Obviously if you pick up ANY German prior to being here, and then speak German at the meeting for the Residence Permit, you should be fine.

Edited February 25, 2010 by veronicavonn

[Otto 83]

Took me forever to get back to this thread - wanted to say thank you for sharing. I figured it was as complicated as you pointed out. Love the Toytown link though... Thank you..

[veronicavonn 7]

I've been on ToyTown since about 4 months after I arrived in Germany. Unfortunately, that was AFTER I received my residence permit. So when I searched the forums in regards to that information, I realized I was screwed. ToyTown has been a priceless resource for me since living in Germany.

If you join ToyTown, feel free to write me and say hi. I have the same user name there.

Edited February 27, 2010 by veronicavonn

[Nina+Matt 0]

@veronicavonn it is the same for getting your german dl transferred to a us one. each state has different rules. some states will just transfere the german one, some make you take the written test and driving test and some only want you to take the driving test. i understand that if you have to take lessons in germany it is way more expensive than in the states, but thats just the way it is. and to be honest, i think that people getting theyre dl in germnay are way better drivers, because they pay more money and get more training compared to the states.

and the other thing, i think its a good think that germnay wants immigrants to be able to speak german. sorry but if you want to live in a country you should speak their language....

[veronicavonn 7]

Oh, I absoultely agree on the language topic Nina+Matt!

Believe me, I WANT to learn all the German that I can! Especially while living in Germany. Because I know once we move back to the states, it will not be as easy for me to continue learning. It's just NOT easy to learn at all. I think that a lot of adults have trouble learning new languages. I feel lucky to have at least taken two years of Spanish in high school. I don't practice my Spanish so much anymore (because I'm learning German), but I believe by me learning that language, it made me more adaptable to learn more languages in the future.

What really sucks is, like I previously mentioned, I have learned all of my German on my own. I want to go to school, but it's either too expensive, or gets cancelled on me! arggg. So frustrating! Anyways, I've learned A LOT of German other ways.. In my house with my husband and stepchildren.. On the women's fastpitch softball team that I play on.. And while working my previous mini-job, and the new job I just started today!

Edited March 2, 2010 by veronicavonn

[Nina+Matt 0]

did you try to take classes at a "volkshochschule"? they should also offer german classes for non-native speakers and those courses are not that expensive. my mom is currently taking english classes there. its definately worth a try!

[Aubrey 10]

Oh, I absoultely agree on the language topic Nina+Matt!

Believe me, I WANT to learn all the German that I can! Especially while living in Germany. Because I know once we move back to the states, it will not be as easy for me to continue learning. It's just NOT easy to learn at all. I think that a lot of adults have trouble learning new languages. I feel lucky to have at least taken two years of Spanish in high school. I don't practice my Spanish so much anymore (because I'm learning German), but I believe by me learning that language, it made me more adaptable to learn more languages in the future.

What really sucks is, like I previously mentioned, I have learned all of my German on my own. I want to go to school, but it's either too expensive, or gets cancelled on me! arggg. So frustrating! Anyways, I've learned A LOT of German other ways.. In my house with my husband and stepchildren.. On the women's fastpitch softball team that I play on.. And while working my previous mini-job, and the new job I just started today!

Use Rosetta Stone. I went through French I and it was a breeze. Like playing a game (not boring/frustrating like books and CDs). When we have the dough to dish out for the full language pack, it will be how I acquire my German skills.

[veronicavonn 7]

@Nina+Matt-

Yes, I was enrolled once before for a German Course at my local VHS and the class was cancelled because of lack of enrolled students. It's a shame, but I'll eventually get a class there..

@Aubrey-

I would love to get Rosetta Stone, but I have the same problem. I do not currently have the money for it. Hopefully in the next month or two, I'll have some money saved up and can get enrolled in a new course @ the VHS or something..

[ravenscroft 3]

What really sucks is, like I previously mentioned, I have learned all of my German on my own. I want to go to school, but it's either too expensive, or gets cancelled on me! arggg. So frustrating! Anyways, I've learned A LOT of German other ways.. In my house with my husband and stepchildren.. On the women's fastpitch softball team that I play on.. And while working my previous mini-job, and the new job I just started today!

Congratulations on the new job! If you don't mind, what kind of job were you able to find? Just curious.

I took a German class at a local community college, but it is so difficult when you aren't immersed in the language. I would probably need a year or more in Germany before I could even think about getting a job.