In Regards to IMBRA, lets define what a mariage broker is

[zethris 0]

To remove confusion, we should define what a mariage broker is with a semi-official definition, or at least a general consensus.

Most important to note before reading, IMBRA effects us all, not just those who went through a mariage broker. However, there is a question about if you met through a mariage broker on the new I-129F forms and the upcoming RFE's that are being sent out to the recalled petitions.

My take on a mariage broker is pretty cut and dry. (emphasis added on important key words)

1. Did you hire an agent or agency that has a database of women outside of a social networking website defined by examples such as eharmony.com, match.com, asianeuro.com, yahoo, IM'ing, etc.?

-If it is not a specific agency listing only women (or men?, never seen a mail order groom) and each one has a price tag to order, then your answer is no

2. Is the lawyer, agent calling themselves a mariage broker, or have their classification as such?

-no brainer, if no, then no.

3. Finally, if it is not a physical person orchestrating and aranging your finding, meeting, filing, etc. Then it's not a mariage broker. Social Network website cannot count because they are not physical mariage brokers. Lawer assistance also isn't a mariage broker unless they too arranged you finding, and meeting.

What did I leave out i'll edit accordingly?

Edited June 22, 2006 by zethris

[Imbra2005 0]

Uh, zethris, I don't know where you are getting your information from, but that's not at all what's in the language of the statute which actually DEFINES what an international marriage broker is (see below). I don't think it says anything about "social networking websites" or "price tags to order."

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘international marriage

broker’’ means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity, whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

(B) EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s

gender or country of citizenship.

[Imbra2005 0]

I wanted to publicly apologize to zethris for my tone in the post. I can't seem to edit it to remove the preliminary comment that seems to scold him, but if I could I would. It was inappropriate, and I'm sorry.

[zethris 0]

Uh, zethris, I don't know where you are getting your information from, but that's not at all what's in the language of the statute which actually DEFINES what an international marriage broker is (see below). I don't think it says anything about "social networking websites" or "price tags to order."

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘international marriage

broker’’ means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity, whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

(B) EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s

gender or country of citizenship.

Yes, point in fact, it IS what is in there. There is no arguement here that social networking/gathering websites are not mariage brokers because it does not talk about it (if thats what you mean?). There is no arguement here that mariage brokers charge a fee per "spouse" sometimes depending upon education and physical features eg. the "price tags to order." like a shopping cart/meat market. Which is why, in some ways I like IMBRA. It removes a lot of the possible abuse on more levels than hopefully preventing the physical abuse.

For detailed definition:

Part A means: no website such as the above examples (yahoo, eharmony, match, etc) can be classified as an IMB because they don't physicaly arrange "dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals." #1 You find who you want to talk to yourself. If youw ant to try to say a search engine is defined as a referral I would disagree because no one is physically refering you to someone, you are searching on your own. #2 Personal contact information is defined as a real name, physical address, and/or phone number. Nothing else. IMB's offer this. Social websites like the above do not by default offer this, it is generaly given in private forms of communication by the actuall user, and NOT by the website's officers.

thank you Imbra2005 for the appology!!

Most of this is a no-brainer though, right? a Mariage Broker is a Mariage Broker. A social gathering website/MMORPG (game), etc. is just what they are too. It's not any form of MB or IMB. For the many of us who did meet online through a game or social gathering website, are exempt from saying they met through an IMB. (I am going to change social networking to social gathering. I was listening to talk radio earlier and got my words mixed up, lol. )

This is just usefull I think for those who are worried about everything right now to at least have some form of security and direction. The vast majority of us had to meet online. That is why there is so much more of an influx of international relationships since the advent of the internet. Airplane tickets haven't realy gotten that cheap where I could take frequent vacations on the weekend overseas.

Edited June 22, 2006 by zethris

[jangler 0]

I mentioned this in another thread...

I fail to see that if the government considered these sites as Marriage Brokers, how is anyone going to answer the next question which is,...if so provide the name and where the international broker is located. How many people can actually "dig" deep to find out who made that website and where their headquarters are located?! A site called www.taiwandatesforyou.com could actually be owned by someone in Texas or Ohio USA! How many applicants would really be able to answer that question?

[zethris 0]

a good thread that goes further into this discussion about social gathering websites.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18806

I mentioned this in another thread...

I fail to see that if the government considered these sites as Marriage Brokers, how is anyone going to answer the next question which is,...if so provide the name and where the international broker is located. How many people can actually "dig" deep to find out who made that website and where their headquarters are located?! A site called www.taiwandatesforyou.com could actually be owned by someone in Texas or Ohio USA! How many applicants would really be able to answer that question?

Exactly, and well put. First, It is unreasonable to call a website a mariage broker when they don't actually broker mariages. Secondly, You aren't paying some agent to buy a mariage, which is what a mariage brokerage is. So there is no one to track down when it is just a chat/social gathering type website. Even IF the intention is to connect lines of communication with people from one particular country to another.

This is a far cry difference than a russian website I found recently (it has since changed it's URL or been taken down) which had a shopping cart on it and you would select a girl (no men were featured, even though there was a link) and the price of the girl was based on education and physical features, like breast size. They offered meeting services, yes even basic communication, but not chat based, and also legal services for visas in the USA, Japan, and United Kingdom from various places in russia. THAT is an online mariage broker if ever there was one.