traveling after green card

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hello All:

Maybe some of my VJ friends with experience in Ukraine can help. Here is the situation:

My 13 year old son is in my wife's passport. He has a US green card. We have planned a trip to Ukraine this year. My wife will travel first, May 16 and my son and I planned to follow June 13 and all return together July 16.

We were told by the Ukrainian consulate in New York that we could receive a travel document for my son to go with me, in place of my wife's passport to get us into Ukraine. We were told it was "no problem" but needed specific dates. OK, so we bought the plane tickets and called back today with specific dates. Now they say he cannot travel without his mother and her passport. So, we either BOTH don't go and lose $1800 in plane tickets OR we change his ticket to May 16, ($200 extra fee) and he goes with her and misses his last three weeks of school here. We are exploring our options and have a meeting with the school tomorrow to discuss this with them. We are also trying to get to someone "higher up" at the Ukrainian consulate but no luck yet.

Has anyone had this experience with the Ukrainian consulate? Has anyone received a travel document for a minor child? Is there such a thing or were we just told bad information and now must pay the price for listening to the consulate?

Any family travel experiences would be appreciated. Sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, I couldn't decide which seemed better.

[payxibka 10,045]

This does not appear to be a Ukrainian issue... this is a departure from the USA issue.... Ukraine does not have any say in who goes from the USA... I am quite sure a notarized letter from mommy authorizing your travel will get you OUT of the USA (remember there is no exit passport control here).... I had to do this for my minor USC son traveling to Canada with a non-parent... Canada let him in, USA let him return.

The answer however may be very different for an exit from Ukraine.

What about letting him travel as an unaccompanied minor? This happens all the time and for kids younger than yours..... Lat time I came back there had to be a dozen or more an the plane from WAW to ORD coming from all over the place

(not a K-1 issue... moving to regional forum)

Edited March 12, 2009 by payxibka

[Brad and Vika 129]

This does not appear to be a Ukrainian issue... this is a departure from the USA issue.... Ukraine does not have any say in who goes from the USA... I am quite sure a notarized letter from mommy authorizing your travel will get you OUT of the USA (remember there is no exit passport control here).... I had to do this for my minor USC son traveling to Canada with a non-parent... Canada let him in, USA let him return.

The answer however may be very different for an exit from Ukraine.

What about letting him travel as an unaccompanied minor? This happens all the time and for kids younger than yours..... Lat time I came back there had to be a dozen or more an the plane from WAW to ORD coming from all over the place

(not a K-1 issue... moving to regional forum)

There is also a fee for letting him travel unaccompanied. Last time I had to do that for one of my boys it was $75 per segment and you had to do it for all segments that direction.

[nyhazmat 2]

I agree with payxibka, when I take my sons, both USCs, to Canada I have to have a notarized letter of permission from my ex-wife, though she does not need one if she takes them there???

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This does not appear to be a Ukrainian issue... this is a departure from the USA issue.... Ukraine does not have any say in who goes from the USA... I am quite sure a notarized letter from mommy authorizing your travel will get you OUT of the USA (remember there is no exit passport control here).... I had to do this for my minor USC son traveling to Canada with a non-parent... Canada let him in, USA let him return.

The answer however may be very different for an exit from Ukraine.

What about letting him travel as an unaccompanied minor? This happens all the time and for kids younger than yours..... Lat time I came back there had to be a dozen or more an the plane from WAW to ORD coming from all over the place

(not a K-1 issue... moving to regional forum)

I spent another day on the phone with the Ukrainian Consulate. You are correct, him leaving the USA is not the problem at all. It is entering Ukraine. He is in his mothers passport, he does not have his own. We were, after getting to a "higher up" given these options

1) apply for a passport at the consulate in New York, his own passport. Expect wait time of 4-6 months. Not going to work for us, but it would have had they told us this at first.

2) His mother can travel ahead of him, go to a passport facility in Ukraine and apply for a passport for him, get expedited service, then FedEx the passport to him here. Not a bad idea, but cutting it close with only about 4 weeks between departures. We wonder about this also. We have been told by Ukrainian authorities that he must be 16 to receive his own passport and be present to apply, but I never know what to believe, so best if he is there.

3) Change the tickets ($200) and travel with Mums to Ukraine. While there, get his own passport and forever end the problem.

We met with his school teachers today and they agreed to give him his final exams before he leaves May 15. We really do not have such a problem with this, it is not what we want but he is an excellent student, was bumped up to 10th grade from 8th grade about 4 weeks after he started school, so I think he will be fine. A sof now, we are going for option 3.

And incidentlaly, while I had him on the phone, I asked about the "absent parent letter". The letters are "required to have an effective date or dates" I said it was for "permanent relocation to the USA" He said..."Oh, then the date is permanent, no problem" It is the best answer I have gotten on this question.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This does not appear to be a Ukrainian issue... this is a departure from the USA issue.... Ukraine does not have any say in who goes from the USA... I am quite sure a notarized letter from mommy authorizing your travel will get you OUT of the USA (remember there is no exit passport control here).... I had to do this for my minor USC son traveling to Canada with a non-parent... Canada let him in, USA let him return.

The answer however may be very different for an exit from Ukraine.

What about letting him travel as an unaccompanied minor? This happens all the time and for kids younger than yours..... Lat time I came back there had to be a dozen or more an the plane from WAW to ORD coming from all over the place

(not a K-1 issue... moving to regional forum)

There is also a fee for letting him travel unaccompanied. Last time I had to do that for one of my boys it was $75 per segment and you had to do it for all segments that direction.

Correct Brad, thanks. He would have been going with me in June, now I will go in June myself. Still, and the expedited passport fee, Fedex fees plus all the worry if everything would be done in time and we decided to cough up the $200 to change the tickets and let him go with Mom.

[payxibka 10,045]

I spent another day on the phone with the Ukrainian Consulate. You are correct, him leaving the USA is not the problem at all. It is entering Ukraine. He is in his mothers passport, he does not have his own. We were, after getting to a "higher up" given these options

Ah, a very important piece of information....

for the very reason you are in is exactly why I had my wife separate the kid from her passport before they came.....

Edited March 12, 2009 by payxibka

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I spent another day on the phone with the Ukrainian Consulate. You are correct, him leaving the USA is not the problem at all. It is entering Ukraine. He is in his mothers passport, he does not have his own. We were, after getting to a "higher up" given these options

Ah, a very important piece of information....

for the very reason you are in is exactly why I had my wife separate the kid from her passport before they came.....

Yes and I would have to say I highly recommend it. Our oldest will have his passport soon and the youngest will have one after this trip. They were both in her passport when we started this process and left it as is, but if I did it over I would have had the separate from the get go. Oh well, all is worked out with his school and it cost us $200. Education is expensive.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I agree with payxibka, when I take my sons, both USCs, to Canada I have to have a notarized letter of permission from my ex-wife, though she does not need one if she takes them there???

Interesting. I live 6 miles from Quebec and for us Montreal is our "local city" and has become overwhelmingly popular with my wife since she got her green card. We actually go there 2-3 times in some weeks, minimum one time and I have gone there several times with our son and never have been asked a question. He uses his green card and never more than the usual "have you got a gun, mace or pepper spray?" questions.

The first time they asked Alla that she said "What??? I NEED those in Montreal???? Can you give me one? I will return it when we come back" LOL She was serious, she was NOT making fun of him, she didn't know. And you gotta know Alla, she is not shy. The guy was speechless and then threw in his own little barb..."No, you don't need them in Montreal, maybe in Vermont" LOL

[nyhazmat 2]

I think that my problem at the border is more that it is obvious that the boys are not Mila's kids. They ask and I am honest, however when my ex goes with her @#%$* live-in, they have the appearance of one big happy family. We really like Toronto, the varied culture, and the Russian markets are fantastic. We discussed moving out of the Buffalo area, my work will let me live anywhere, but the proximity to Toronto keeps us here.

When Mila and I cross by ourselves, no issue and no real questions. We met in Canada and both have a lot of friends in Southern Ontario.

[Djwalker60 1]

I think that my problem at the border is more that it is obvious that the boys are not Mila's kids. They ask and I am honest, however when my ex goes with her @#%$* live-in, they have the appearance of one big happy family. We really like Toronto, the varied culture, and the Russian markets are fantastic. We discussed moving out of the Buffalo area, my work will let me live anywhere, but the proximity to Toronto keeps us here.

When Mila and I cross by ourselves, no issue and no real questions. We met in Canada and both have a lot of friends in Southern Ontario.

Gary and All;

I know i've written to some off line about this but my Fiancee has a 15 month old, the biological wants nothing to do with her or child since the day he found out she was having a baby. The US Embassy wants a letter for either missing parent, in this case the local govt will actually look for him and take a long time and she wants not to even talk with this person or else she feels that there will be a problem. Good point is that she made up the middle name and the last name on the birth certificate is hers. So the fathers name on the birth certificate is not a real person. According to the US Embassy In Kiev, they said all that they need is a "Thank you for your inquiry of March 10, 2009. The name of the document is "Довідка про те, що батько дитини записаний зі слів матері". In English the document is called the way we wrote you in the previous emails.

If you have any other questions you can contact us via email."

then they said this

Thank you for your inquiry of March 10, 2009. This is the only document we require in this case.

We hope this information will be helpful.

Sincerely,

Public Liaison Unit

Consular Section

U.S. Embassy,

Kyiv, Ukraine

The other way is to get a Ukrainian court to give her sole custody and in this case I have no idea how that would work. We have many months to wait for the interview and that is why i had her start now on getting one of these two options.

It appears that we are not going to have any issues, but wanted to throw this out there in case anyone else has had a similar issue at the Kiev Embassy.

Thanks

Dan

[Brit Abroad 166]

Gary and All;

I know i've written to some off line about this but my Fiancee has a 15 month old, the biological wants nothing to do with her or child since the day he found out she was having a baby. The US Embassy wants a letter for either missing parent, in this case the local govt will actually look for him and take a long time and she wants not to even talk with this person or else she feels that there will be a problem. Good point is that she made up the middle name and the last name on the birth certificate is hers. So the fathers name on the birth certificate is not a real person. According to the US Embassy In Kiev, they said all that they need is a "Thank you for your inquiry of March 10, 2009. The name of the document is "Довідка про те, що батько дитини записаний зі слів матері". In English the document is called the way we wrote you in the previous emails.

If you have any other questions you can contact us via email."

then they said this

Thank you for your inquiry of March 10, 2009. This is the only document we require in this case.

We hope this information will be helpful.

Sincerely,

Public Liaison Unit

Consular Section

U.S. Embassy,

Kyiv, Ukraine

The other way is to get a Ukrainian court to give her sole custody and in this case I have no idea how that would work. We have many months to wait for the interview and that is why i had her start now on getting one of these two options.

It appears that we are not going to have any issues, but wanted to throw this out there in case anyone else has had a similar issue at the Kiev Embassy.

Thanks

Dan

I think in this situation, it would probably be better to approach the biological father and manoeuver him into signing away any parental rights, in exchange for not being pursued for any parental responsibilities (ie financial). If he hasn't seen the child and genuinely doesn't wish to have any relationship then this would stop a lot of worry further down the line.

You can dispute many things, but if he should pursue this later and a DNA test is ordered, it won't matter what names are on the birth certificate as the evidence isn't going to support any claim made.

It probably seems a difficult solution, but in the long run it's got to be worth a shot. I'd leave out anything about a relationship, immigration or otherwise. Quite simply, your fiancee just wants to take sole responsibility in a legal capacity.

Good luck

[Brad and Vika 129]

Gary and All;

I know i've written to some off line about this but my Fiancee has a 15 month old, the biological wants nothing to do with her or child since the day he found out she was having a baby. The US Embassy wants a letter for either missing parent, in this case the local govt will actually look for him and take a long time and she wants not to even talk with this person or else she feels that there will be a problem. Good point is that she made up the middle name and the last name on the birth certificate is hers. So the fathers name on the birth certificate is not a real person. According to the US Embassy In Kiev, they said all that they need is a "Thank you for your inquiry of March 10, 2009. The name of the document is "Довідка про те, що батько дитини записаний зі слів матері". In English the document is called the way we wrote you in the previous emails.

If you have any other questions you can contact us via email."

then they said this

Thank you for your inquiry of March 10, 2009. This is the only document we require in this case.

We hope this information will be helpful.

Sincerely,

Public Liaison Unit

Consular Section

U.S. Embassy,

Kyiv, Ukraine

The other way is to get a Ukrainian court to give her sole custody and in this case I have no idea how that would work. We have many months to wait for the interview and that is why i had her start now on getting one of these two options.

It appears that we are not going to have any issues, but wanted to throw this out there in case anyone else has had a similar issue at the Kiev Embassy.

Thanks

Dan

I think in this situation, it would probably be better to approach the biological father and manoeuver him into signing away any parental rights, in exchange for not being pursued for any parental responsibilities (ie financial). If he hasn't seen the child and genuinely doesn't wish to have any relationship then this would stop a lot of worry further down the line.

You can dispute many things, but if he should pursue this later and a DNA test is ordered, it won't matter what names are on the birth certificate as the evidence isn't going to support any claim made.

It probably seems a difficult solution, but in the long run it's got to be worth a shot. I'd leave out anything about a relationship, immigration or otherwise. Quite simply, your fiancee just wants to take sole responsibility in a legal capacity.

Good luck

I am not sure this solution will work in Ukraine, necessarily. The support system works differently than in the US, and threatening the guy with that stuff might not provide much of a lever.

[Brit Abroad 166]

I am not sure this solution will work in Ukraine, necessarily. The support system works differently than in the US, and threatening the guy with that stuff might not provide much of a lever.

I am not a fan of "threats" at any time, let alone when there is more to gain by bartering and keeping things as neutral as possible, especially when the birth certificate is technically illegal and could land the OP and his new family in a world of legal pain.

The father has already stated disinterest in the child. In order to have sole legal custody, the OP needs the biological father to "sign off" on any parental rights. The easiest way to encourage this is by offering something in exchange. Who knows, maybe bio-dad would be happy to just sign the papers and be clear of any involvement at all. Without asking, nobody will ever know.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I am not sure this solution will work in Ukraine, necessarily. The support system works differently than in the US, and threatening the guy with that stuff might not provide much of a lever.

I am not a fan of "threats" at any time, let alone when there is more to gain by bartering and keeping things as neutral as possible, especially when the birth certificate is technically illegal and could land the OP and his new family in a world of legal pain.

The father has already stated disinterest in the child. In order to have sole legal custody, the OP needs the biological father to "sign off" on any parental rights. The easiest way to encourage this is by offering something in exchange. Who knows, maybe bio-dad would be happy to just sign the papers and be clear of any involvement at all. Without asking, nobody will ever know.

My point was that there isn't much muscle behind child support enforcement in Ukraine, so there wouldn't be much use in offering to not ask for him to take responsibility in return for signing off. Or, put another way, threatening to (possibly, maybe, some day) asking for support. If his name is not on the birth certificate anyway there is nothing to gain by engaging him at all IMHO, and there is a risk that once the genieis out of the bottle he will prevent the child from leaving for some reason (like spite).