MENA FOOD

[catknit 144]

2ond journey - I just looked at your link - great tool!!! But I'm confused by what you said about the McDonald's french fries - the site claims the following:

CONTAINING NON ZABIHA BEEF EXTRACT

That is not the same as containing a pork product.

In food labelling lard [pork based shortening] must be labelled as lard or animal based fat. That will be a huge tip off for anyone trying to avoid questionable animal based fats - the law plainly states it:

(14) Each individual fat and/or oil ingredient of a food intended

for human consumption shall be declared by its specific common or usual

name (e.g., "beef fat", "cottonseed oil") in its order of

predominance in the food except that blends of fats and/or oils may be

designated in their order of predominance in the foods as "------

shortening" or "blend of ------ oils", the blank to be filled in with

the word "vegetable", "animal", "marine", with or without the

terms "fat" or "oils", or combination of these, whichever is

applicable if, immediately following the term, the common or usual name

of each individual vegetable, animal, or marine fat or oil is given in

parentheses, e.g., "vegetable oil shortening (soybean and cottonseed

oil)". For products that are blends of fats and/or oils and for foods

in which fats and/or oils constitute the predominant ingredient, i.e.,

in which the combined weight of all fat and/or oil ingredients equals or

exceeds the weight of the most predominant ingredient that is not a fat

or oil, the listing of the common or usual names of such fats and/or

oils in parentheses shall be in descending order of predominance.

So - if a label says "animal fat" it can be ANY animal. If it states "beef fat" or "beef tallow" it HAS to be from a cow.

The same nomenclature rules are followed for flavors. If a label states Natural Beef Flavor - it CAN NOT contain flavoring items not from a cow [that being said non-flavoring items like salts, solvents, and preservatives may come from other sources...Ethyl Alcohol is a solvent, so be warned]. If a label states Natural Beef Flavor with Other Natural Flavors, the flavor will contain ingredients from other flavoring sources [like garlic or onion or autolyzed yeast proteins - possibly even other meat sources!].

I know labels and ingredient statements in the US are tough to follow. Improvements are being made ALL the time. But it's just like everything else, industry fights it because of the costs associated with changing the way of doing things...

[UmmSqueakster 54]

If it's kosher gelatin it's fine.

Kosher gelatin can be made from the skin/hooves of cows, as well as from fish bones. It's not Halal if it's not slaughtered properly, is it?

Do the skin/hooves come from cows that are slaughtered in the kosher manner? Muslims can eat meat that is slaughtered according to kosher guidelines.

I know there are different opinions within the kosher certifying community as to what is considered kosher re: gelatin. I think it's probably best to email the companies and ask about the source of the ingredients of the gelatin.

[2ond journey 0]

2ond journey - I just looked at your link - great tool!!! But I'm confused by what you said about the McDonald's french fries - the site claims the following:

CONTAINING NON ZABIHA BEEF EXTRACT

That is not the same as containing a pork product.

In food labelling lard [pork based shortening] must be labelled as lard or animal based fat. That will be a huge tip off for anyone trying to avoid questionable animal based fats - the law plainly states it:

(14) Each individual fat and/or oil ingredient of a food intended

for human consumption shall be declared by its specific common or usual

name (e.g., "beef fat", "cottonseed oil") in its order of

predominance in the food except that blends of fats and/or oils may be

designated in their order of predominance in the foods as "------

shortening" or "blend of ------ oils", the blank to be filled in with

the word "vegetable", "animal", "marine", with or without the

terms "fat" or "oils", or combination of these, whichever is

applicable if, immediately following the term, the common or usual name

of each individual vegetable, animal, or marine fat or oil is given in

parentheses, e.g., "vegetable oil shortening (soybean and cottonseed

oil)". For products that are blends of fats and/or oils and for foods

in which fats and/or oils constitute the predominant ingredient, i.e.,

in which the combined weight of all fat and/or oil ingredients equals or

exceeds the weight of the most predominant ingredient that is not a fat

or oil, the listing of the common or usual names of such fats and/or

oils in parentheses shall be in descending order of predominance.

So - if a label says "animal fat" it can be ANY animal. If it states "beef fat" or "beef tallow" it HAS to be from a cow.

The same nomenclature rules are followed for flavors. If a label states Natural Beef Flavor - it CAN NOT contain flavoring items not from a cow [that being said non-flavoring items like salts, solvents, and preservatives may come from other sources...Ethyl Alcohol is a solvent, so be warned]. If a label states Natural Beef Flavor with Other Natural Flavors, the flavor will contain ingredients from other flavoring sources [like garlic or onion or autolyzed yeast proteins - possibly even other meat sources!].

I know labels and ingredient statements in the US are tough to follow. Improvements are being made ALL the time. But it's just like everything else, industry fights it because of the costs associated with changing the way of doing things...

I thought the lard they cook the fries in might of contained pork fat. I read it somewhere but now cant find the site. It might be Wendy's I cant remember. I will have to research it more. Here is another site.

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/halalhealthy/ingridient.asp

[Staashi 371]

Basically, at this point I've become tired of reading labels, so I make just about everything myself. Homemade desserts (with alcohol free vanilla flavoring), pizza, meatloaf, fried chicken, I've made just about everything. Ice cream is a project I'm eager to try, although I want to invest in a good ice cream maker, so I'm saving my pennies (very few ice creams are made without vanilla extract).

Jen, I found a deluxe Cuisinart Ice Cream Maker the other day at Williams-Sonoma - for...guess how much???? $29.98!!!!! Can you believe it?!?!?!?! It is so cool - can't wait to try it out. It is even RED!!! My hubby used to work in an ice cream shop in Germany and he was the ice cream maker. So, I figured he needs to make it for me at home.

One other thing - the best vanilla flavoring comes from using real vanilla bean - my tip is to separate some sugar that you'd like to flavor with vanilla and drop a bean in there. It is awesome!

Edited January 23, 2009 by Staashi

[sandinista! 1,816]

If it's kosher gelatin it's fine.

Kosher gelatin can be made from the skin/hooves of cows, as well as from fish bones. It's not Halal if it's not slaughtered properly, is it?

Do the skin/hooves come from cows that are slaughtered in the kosher manner? Muslims can eat meat that is slaughtered according to kosher guidelines.

I know there are different opinions within the kosher certifying community as to what is considered kosher re: gelatin. I think it's probably best to email the companies and ask about the source of the ingredients of the gelatin.

says who?

[HannahP 119]

If it's kosher gelatin it's fine.

Kosher gelatin can be made from the skin/hooves of cows, as well as from fish bones. It's not Halal if it's not slaughtered properly, is it?

Do the skin/hooves come from cows that are slaughtered in the kosher manner? Muslims can eat meat that is slaughtered according to kosher guidelines.

I know there are different opinions within the kosher certifying community as to what is considered kosher re: gelatin. I think it's probably best to email the companies and ask about the source of the ingredients of the gelatin.

says who?

They are slaughtered in the kosher manner.

I was curious as to whether Muslims could eat kosher so I looked it up, actually. Needless to say, there are a LOT of different opinions on the subject.

/neither Jewish nor Muslim

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Kosher is complicated, which is why I specifically asked if the meat was slaughtered according to kosher guidelines as opposed to if rabbis declare something to be kosher.

Eating kosher meat:

"Kosher meat, strictly speaking, is considered halal. But this rule, it should be emphasized, does not apply indiscriminately to all kosher foods that are prepared and labeled as kosher, since it is possible they may contain wine or other ingredients that are considered haram. It is, therefore, necessary that we stringently inquire into the components of each food that is labeled as kosher; if a food is found to be free of haram ingredients, it shall be considered halal (permitted). Otherwise, it will be haram (forbidden) for us to consume."

The Qur'an tells us:

The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them.

This is where the scholars get the ruling above. If kosher meat is slaughtered according to their guidelines, it's fine. This isn't talking about the miriade of disagreements amongst jews over what else is kosher re: gelatin and everything else. Heck, Jell-o puts a little k on their products, even though the gelatin could be derived from pork. As I've learned from my husband's boss, who started being frum in recent years, it's a whole big mess. I'm speaking strictly about the slaughter of meat.

If anyone takes issue with what I have to say, I'd prefer if they talk to me me directly, rather than backbite. But then again, I can't help but thinking of something Hasan al Basri (ra) wrote:

"I learned that you sent me some of your good rewards to me as a gift by backbiting me. I cannot repay you in the same way; however, please accept this gift in return of your kindness towards me."

Where should I send the present?

On a somewhat related note, my university opened a joint kosher/halal kitchen after I graduated. Definately a positive step in jewish-muslim relations on campus.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Basically, at this point I've become tired of reading labels, so I make just about everything myself. Homemade desserts (with alcohol free vanilla flavoring), pizza, meatloaf, fried chicken, I've made just about everything. Ice cream is a project I'm eager to try, although I want to invest in a good ice cream maker, so I'm saving my pennies (very few ice creams are made without vanilla extract).

Jen, I found a deluxe Cuisinart Ice Cream Maker the other day at Williams-Sonoma - for...guess how much???? $29.98!!!!! Can you believe it?!?!?!?! It is so cool - can't wait to try it out. It is even RED!!! My hubby used to work in an ice cream shop in Germany and he was the ice cream maker. So, I figured he needs to make it for me at home.

One other thing - the best vanilla flavoring comes from using real vanilla bean - my tip is to separate some sugar that you'd like to flavor with vanilla and drop a bean in there. It is awesome!

Oooo, that sounds great! Will definately look into it.

I used to cook with vanilla beans, but it got a little too expensive, especially when I was making desserts ever 2 or 3 days. Next time, I'll have to buy in bulk, lol.

[Staashi 371]

Basically, at this point I've become tired of reading labels, so I make just about everything myself. Homemade desserts (with alcohol free vanilla flavoring), pizza, meatloaf, fried chicken, I've made just about everything. Ice cream is a project I'm eager to try, although I want to invest in a good ice cream maker, so I'm saving my pennies (very few ice creams are made without vanilla extract).

Jen, I found a deluxe Cuisinart Ice Cream Maker the other day at Williams-Sonoma - for...guess how much???? $29.98!!!!! Can you believe it?!?!?!?! It is so cool - can't wait to try it out. It is even RED!!! My hubby used to work in an ice cream shop in Germany and he was the ice cream maker. So, I figured he needs to make it for me at home.

One other thing - the best vanilla flavoring comes from using real vanilla bean - my tip is to separate some sugar that you'd like to flavor with vanilla and drop a bean in there. It is awesome!

Oooo, that sounds great! Will definately look into it.

I used to cook with vanilla beans, but it got a little too expensive, especially when I was making desserts ever 2 or 3 days. Next time, I'll have to buy in bulk, lol.

Well, if you get one bean and a 5lb bag of sugar, that bean should begin to give the sugar tremendous flavor. Let it sit in the sugar for a few weeks before using it and you will not be disappointed.

[ARALB 0]

we're not that picky lol. We do our absolute best to check the packaging that it doesn't show any known pork products. We don't go around making excuses to eat pork, I promise!!! but it's just that we know that god knows we do our best to check and that is as good as we can do. We don't have the time to call on every product we consume.

I know that u have to be careful with marshmallows. Be careful with the hot dogs and sausages coz they're oftentimes cased in pork intestines but it's not written on the label.

My husband is not picky about going out to eat as long as we don't physically order pork. I do know others though whose husbands refuse to eat take-out just because there's a chance that pork may have been cooked on or near the place the beef and/or chicken was cooked or prepared..OR the worry that they could use the same utensils to prepare them. It's all really up to the non-pork eater and their preferences. Definitely talk to him about how he feels. Explain the ways restaurants prepare things and there are codes and what not and just see how he feels. Good Luck!

OH, and anything that has gelatin...is not ok. Gelatin (at least from what I've read) is made from pork.

Not all Gelatin is made from pork. Starbursts candies for instance--AND I HAVE CALLED M&M&Mars,-- are made from beef gelatin, and many things can have chicken gelatin in them, but STAY AWAY FROM STARBURSTS JELLY BEANS! So if you're worried about it, then call about the type of gelatin. It would be nice if the different manufacturers would clairify, and WHY if the whole line of products is already made with beef gelatin, did they decide it necessary to make something with PORK?! UGH!

[MrsAmera 41]

jen - i just saw at trader joes last night pure vanilla that is alcohol free. a bottle was $2.99!!! just an fyi

[sandinista! 1,816]

Kosher is complicated, which is why I specifically asked if the meat was slaughtered according to kosher guidelines as opposed to if rabbis declare something to be kosher.

Eating kosher meat:

"Kosher meat, strictly speaking, is considered halal. But this rule, it should be emphasized, does not apply indiscriminately to all kosher foods that are prepared and labeled as kosher, since it is possible they may contain wine or other ingredients that are considered haram. It is, therefore, necessary that we stringently inquire into the components of each food that is labeled as kosher; if a food is found to be free of haram ingredients, it shall be considered halal (permitted). Otherwise, it will be haram (forbidden) for us to consume."

The Qur'an tells us:

The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them.

This is where the scholars get the ruling above. If kosher meat is slaughtered according to their guidelines, it's fine. This isn't talking about the miriade of disagreements amongst jews over what else is kosher re: gelatin and everything else. Heck, Jell-o puts a little k on their products, even though the gelatin could be derived from pork. As I've learned from my husband's boss, who started being frum in recent years, it's a whole big mess. I'm speaking strictly about the slaughter of meat.

If anyone takes issue with what I have to say, I'd prefer if they talk to me me directly, rather than backbite. But then again, I can't help but thinking of something Hasan al Basri (ra) wrote:

"I learned that you sent me some of your good rewards to me as a gift by backbiting me. I cannot repay you in the same way; however, please accept this gift in return of your kindness towards me."

Where should I send the present?

On a somewhat related note, my university opened a joint kosher/halal kitchen after I graduated. Definately a positive step in jewish-muslim relations on campus.

what about these circumstances?

"In Shechita, a blessing to God is recited before beginning an uninterrupted period of slaughtering; as long as the Shochet does not have a lengthy pause, interrupt, or otherwise lose concentration, this blessing covers all the animals slaughtered that period. This blessing follows the standard form for a blessing before most Jewish rituals ("Blesséd are you God ... who commanded us regarding [such-and-such]," in this case, Shechita). The general rule in Judaism is that for rituals which have an associated blessing, if one omitted the blessing, the ritual is still valid [see Maimonides Laws of Blessings 11:5]; as such, even if the shochet failed to recite the blessing before Shechita, the slaughter is still valid and the meat is kosher. [Maimonides Laws of Slaughter 1:2 and commentaries ad loc]"--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Dhabi%C4%A5a_Halal_and_kashrut

is it still halal, even though “Eat not of (meats) over which Allah’s name has not been pronounced. That would be impiety.”(al-An’ am, V. 121) ?

is it even remotely feasible for muslims to witness the shechita of the specific animal they were going to eat to assure that the name of God was invoked that time? specifically asking if kosher guidelines were followed when the animal was slaughtered is no assurance that God's name has been pronounced over it. i don't care about anything else kosher here, i'm strictly speaking specifically about the slaughter of animals as well.

issues with anything i say on other websites should be brought up on the websites they are said on, not here.

[bhajishah 4]

Id be worried about the hidden clove and peppercorn leaves in the byriani, for taste only dont eat the seed whooo hot and bitter.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

It is good adab to begin with bismillah before eating anything, but in particular, one says bismillah over meat where they are not sure if it was said while the meat was being slaughtered. Wa'la, the name of Allah (swt) is said over the meat.

As for elsewhere, it's not healthy to hang out amidst backbiting. So please do continue it elsewhere if you wish, but if you have sincere advice that would help people here to practice their religion better, then offer it to them in the best possible terms.

And say to My servants, that they say words that are kindlier. For surely Satan provokes strife between them, and Satan is ever a manifest foe to man. (17:53)

O you who believe, do not let any people deride another people: who may be better than they are; nor let any women deride [other] women who may be better than they are. And do not defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. Evil is the name of immorality after faith! And whoever does not repent, those — they are the evildoers.

O you who believe, shun much suspicion. Indeed some suspicions are sins. And do not spy, nor backbite one another. Would any of you love to eat the flesh of his brother dead? You would abhor it. And fear God; assuredly God is Relenting, Merciful. (49:11-12)

[brnidokiegurl 0]

since i started the subject there should be no back stabbing, name calling etc. Its very simple i wanted to learn the right foods, (mostly the hidden not the obvious) and sincere in asking for help, thanks to all who actually helped. Now who would like to help clean this house from top to bottom on short notice?