VISA DENIED 2ND TIME!!!

[Together4ever 1]

Look like the Consulate wont let you bring your boy toys to the US anymore.

Anytime you have a combination of age, religion, culture, or language differences, you will be raising a red flag. If these are contrary to the usual culture there, then they are not going to believe in the validity of your relationship. They are allowed to make subjective judgements like many of you are finding out.

They dont believe that many of these relationships are based on love, but based upon other motives. His motives or your motives.

Based on your logic no visas should be issued for any people in relationships period. Do you see the holes in this???? Following your own logic would also invalidate your own relationship. As far as "boy toys" goes... thanks for the laugh.

Where do these people come from????

But....My wife (then fiancee) received her visa....no problem...because we didnt have these kinds of issues. You must be in denial if you believe and any of the problems that I listed wont cause a problem. These threads are full of nothing but problems. Isnt is obvious to you yet when there are going to be red flags??? I see them every time I read of these posts. Since Im not emotionally involved, its relatively easy to see the problem. Older christian woman meets young good looking muslim while on vacation...he pays more attention to her than she has ever had in her life.....etc.....you fill in the blanks. I see it every time I go to Jamaica, and several other places that I have been. Young men that want to get out of their country and into the US.

Hmm. I see. So because others are not just like you, fancying the things you fancy, and opining the way you opine.... we are all foolish, seeking "toys", being "used", etc.? That's your opinion and you can keep it. Let me ask you one question... WHY did you choose YOUR fiancee? We could all sit and presume things too. And it's really pointless to do so. It's not my business to suppose anything about you. Yes there are frauds in the world regarding relationships, conversely there are also quite legitimate ones that may not exactly slide so easily into "societal norms"... however that doesn't mean ALL are illegitimate. We are all quite aware red flags exist. Thank you for stating the obvious. But a "red flag" does not always denote the reality.

Let's examine one other thing... what relationship does not have it's ulterior motives? Do you not want to be alone anymore? Do you want a good mother or father for your children? Do you consider potential for your own personal advancement via the support of your spouse? Do you marry because this person offers financial stability? Do you marry because this person just looks good with you? The list is endless and can appear quite shallow, but for any person to say that they have NO ulterior motives whatsoever entering into a relationships and/or a marriage is incorrect. It is human nature and perfectly normal to do so. Do ANY of these ulterior motives cancel out the possibility of love existing as well? Nope. People fall in love too. It happens every day. Go figure.

[sarah and hicham 3]

As for "the fox," he's certainly not worth wasting any energy on.

Amen to that.

[desert_fox 32]

As for "the fox," he's certainly not worth wasting any energy on.

Then you can continue to fail to see the reality of what is really happening. Dont see many of these kind of posts from folks dealing with other Consulates in the world.

[Together4ever 1]

As for "the fox," he's certainly not worth wasting any energy on.

Then you can continue to fail to see the reality of what is really happening. Dont see many of these kind of posts from folks dealing with other Consulates in the world.

Who's reality???

[sarah and hicham 3]

I don't know why this person feels compelled to come out of no where with no knowledge of what is going on and deliver us the word on "reallity" which he has no idea about.

[USMA 0]

I haven't been on VJ for very long but I have done a lot of reading and observing.

I honestly do not see any rhyme or reason to the people who are denied or approved through the Moroccan Consulate. I truly wish I did.

As for Morocco 'specializing' in 'boy toys'...I don't see it either. I do believe that in every culture and in every country you will see boy toys, women marrying younger men, and relationships based on 'ulterior' motives.

Does Morocco have fraudulent marriages...YEP! Does the US have fraudulent marriages...YEP! Does every country in the world have fraudulent marriages...YEP!!!!!!!!!!!

And all of the above countries have honest relationships.

And that is why we are all here on this website.

I am pretty shocked at the boldness of someone to more or less label an entire region as frauds.

But I am glad to see variety and the environment to express all opinions.

Best wishes to all on their journeys!

[desert_fox 32]

you can all say what you want about me...becuase I really dont care.

Here we have 7 pages of a thread of people being denied, and other threades dealing with the same isses from Morrocco. You all talk about evidence, etc...but you all ignore the reality of it all....They simply do not believe that it is a valid relationship. Its contrary to the norms of the country, etc. Im sure that your petitions will bounce back and forth forever from the State Dept to Homeland Security. Im not sure that one has a say-so over the other. The state department has the final say-so when it comes to interviews and who gets visas. So until all of you develop a strategy to deal with this issue...you will continued to be denied. Saying that its againt regulations, or against the law will do no good. They are beyond the reach of the law and the courts.

I would suggest that every woman go to the interview...even if you sit outside and they ask you no questions....it shows support.

[Jenn! 918]

Aside from the "boy toy" comment, I don't see what's so unreasonable about what desert fox has said. I don't think we can deny that Morocco has become a high fraud consulate. And there is also a disproportionately high number of couples where the USC is a female who happens to be several years older than the Moroccon male, and therefore this has become a red flag. He did not say that is]f you have this red flag that means your relationship is a fruad.

[zyggy 9]

Zyggy, you make some good points, but I object to your opening statement. Does the consulate really have the right to ignore their own regulations? Their regulations say that, first of all, they are required to present, in writing, as detailed an explanation as possible detailing why the CO believes that the couple is not eligible for a visa. All the cases that have been sent back have gotten a piece of paper stating simply that the case is being sent back to DHS. That does not seem to me to be a detailed explanation.

Actually this is not exactly the case, the CO has the authority to send a petition back to the USCIS if in their opinion there is evidence that if the USCIS had known it would have resulted in a different outcome on their end. The evidence does not need to be written, it can be empirical, cultural or otherwise... THey do not need to tell you what the specifics of their suspicion's are because that would give one a road map to fabricate something to refute it, however, they should give you a cite from the INA stating their basis for sending it back.

You are applying for an immigration benefit. You have to show the CO that you are eligible for that benefit. What the bar is to show that one is eligible obviously changes from consulate to consulate based on local factors... The system was built with checks and balances. The CO deosn't have the authority to stop the petition that establishes the eligibility.. but the USCIS cannot issue the visa. For good or bad, you have to satisfy both agencies...

Second of all, the rules say that the petitioner and beneficiary may present additional evidence attempting to refute the CO's decision prior to the petition's being sent back. Most of the Moroccan petitions, on the contrary, have been sent back the following day. It's pretty hard to present additional evidence when you don't know what the CO's objection is and they send the application back immediately.

Can you cite the provision where this is the case...

I saw this in the Foreign Affairs Manual

9 FAM 41.81 Notes

d. Consular officers should return the K-1 petition to DHS for reconsideration if not satisfied with respect to the bona fides of the relationship or if the petitioner indicates that he or she no longer intends to go forward with the marriage.

I see nothing in the FAM that states that the opportunity for more information must be given...

Edited June 21, 2006 by zyggy

[chiquita 0]

Make sure your fiancee/husband is very careful about being pushy to show your evidence. There are differences in what you can get away with, with demanding the CO's to look at your evidence. The worst of the CO in Morocco will probably find ways to deny you if you piss her off. But instead use tricks to get your evidence out there. 1) Make sure you have folders and make sure they are clearly marked what evidence you have in them. 2) When the CO asks a question, then make sure your fiancee/husband digs out the evidence that goes along with it. For example if they are asked how do you communicate. He or she should say we communicate by phone, online and by snail mail. At the very same time he should be grabbing the phone bills, the copies of the e-mails and instant message print outs. That question from the CO asks for evidence and is your chance so they will not take offense later when in their mind it's not the time to show since they didn't ask for it. In short you have to know how to play the game to interview these CO's based on their personalities and what you can get away with. So practice and prepare what you will do for questions you know you will get then it's a habit and you will do fine.

Going to be with your fiancee/husband during their interview is good advice but I do not feel it is 100% necessary since some Consulates do not let you go in with them. Plus you probably have limited vacation time and money to make the trip at the last minute and the CO's realize this. If you have all the other proof and how you present it most likely will be enough. But if you can afford the time off and the money and feel better go to the interview, it sure can't hurt either. But do not skip all the other more important prep work to make your interview successful. Do not come out of the interview regretting you took the short cut and didn't practice and prepare, you will only have yourself to blame if you fail. Do not only blame CO for your case being denied if you didn't do your work. I am not saying the CO is always right, but it's not their fault to see through your dumb mistakes and approve you anyway just because you are nicer than the last couple that failed their interview just like you did. I know some people will get offended because they were denied, but I ask them to be honest with their cases and take their own blame if they messed up.

I only offer my advice because all the work I did paid off with a visa from Morocco and it has helped other couples get their visas from Morocco also. In fact every couple I and my husband helped has gotten their visa. And I hope my advice helps others.

Paula

let me tell ya, you piss me off! you must be a CO to say the things you say.

Chi,

Don't let Paula ruffle your feathers. Some people claim to know all of the answers but really have no clue what they are talking about. She doesn't know any of us personally and although we know she really doesn't understand the situation, there is no changing her mind. All we can do is just keep telling our stories, getting the word out there, helping those that fall into our shoes, and stay strong until our loved ones get here.

You have a vast knowledge of the laws and how the system works, and I plan on using your strategy when my time comes. As far as anyone elses advice, well we just have to weed through them for the good and the bad, and take into account who has been there before, and who hasn't.

THANKS! I needed that. I forgot sometimes....

[Together4ever 1]

Aside from the "boy toy" comment, I don't see what's so unreasonable about what desert fox has said. I don't think we can deny that Morocco has become a high fraud consulate. And there is also a disproportionately high number of couples where the USC is a female who happens to be several years older than the Moroccon male, and therefore this has become a red flag. He did not say that is]f you have this red flag that means your relationship is a fruad.

The term "boy toy" in itself implies no intention of marriage... hence fraudulent relationship in his implication.

Sorry I lost my cool. I'm getting weary from the waiting and all the other crud I'm dealing with.

[chiquita 0]

let me tell ya, you piss me off! you must be a CO to say the things you say.

nice attitude!! paula offered sound advice that, frankly, anyone on this entire board could use when prepping for their interview. it's a shame that you can't keep emotions out of this and had to reply in such a derogatory fashion.

Let me tell ya ####### is wrong...she has no idea of what happens to a couple who are denied a visa.

I agree being PREPARED is the most important thing one can do. Since she has no experience with denials how on earth can she give advice? In her opinion...that is exactly it...hers.

Some of her advice is WRONG! (more on that later...)

I can't keep my emotions out of this because I want my husband here and there is NOT ONE REASON for him not to be here!!!!!!!!!!

So, like I said, she pisses me off and she sounds like a CO...(oooooo don't piss them off or you'll get denied!!!) That is a bunch of #######.

Paula is giving advice on other groups as well when she shouldn't. Not everthing works for everyone. That's so narrow minded. There are many many issues to consider.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Let's examine one other thing... what relationship does not have it's ulterior motives? Do you not want to be alone anymore? Do you want a good mother or father for your children? Do you consider potential for your own personal advancement via the support of your spouse? Do you marry because this person offers financial stability? Do you marry because this person just looks good with you? The list is endless and can appear quite shallow, but for any person to say that they have NO ulterior motives whatsoever entering into a relationships and/or a marriage is incorrect. It is human nature and perfectly normal to do so. Do ANY of these ulterior motives cancel out the possibility of love existing as well? Nope. People fall in love too. It happens every day. Go figure.

I don't really see the point of articulating the above statement. As NONE of the reasons listed above would be grounds to find a marriage fraudulent in the eyes of USCIS. No one said that "love" has to be involved. The only thing stipulated is that "immigration benefit" cannot be the sole motivator.

[Together4ever 1]

Let's examine one other thing... what relationship does not have it's ulterior motives? Do you not want to be alone anymore? Do you want a good mother or father for your children? Do you consider potential for your own personal advancement via the support of your spouse? Do you marry because this person offers financial stability? Do you marry because this person just looks good with you? The list is endless and can appear quite shallow, but for any person to say that they have NO ulterior motives whatsoever entering into a relationships and/or a marriage is incorrect. It is human nature and perfectly normal to do so. Do ANY of these ulterior motives cancel out the possibility of love existing as well? Nope. People fall in love too. It happens every day. Go figure.

I don't really see the point of articulating the above statement. As NONE of the reasons listed above would be grounds to find a marriage fraudulent in the eyes of USCIS. No one said that "love" has to be involved. The only thing stipulated is that "immigration benefit" cannot be the sole motivator.

I was addressing what was insinuated that had more to do with valid relationships in general not through the eyes of the USCIS. I wasn't even addressing the immigration process at all. As far as having a "point of articulating the above statement"... I didn't see much "point" for someone coming into this area of the forum and referring to the SOs as "boy toys".

I think we could all stand to lighten up a bit and not take ourselves so darn seriously. Me included.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

let me tell ya, you piss me off! you must be a CO to say the things you say.

nice attitude!! paula offered sound advice that, frankly, anyone on this entire board could use when prepping for their interview. it's a shame that you can't keep emotions out of this and had to reply in such a derogatory fashion.

Let me tell ya ####### is wrong...she has no idea of what happens to a couple who are denied a visa.

I agree being PREPARED is the most important thing one can do. Since she has no experience with denials how on earth can she give advice? In her opinion...that is exactly it...hers.

Some of her advice is WRONG! (more on that later...)

I can't keep my emotions out of this because I want my husband here and there is NOT ONE REASON for him not to be here!!!!!!!!!!

So, like I said, she pisses me off and she sounds like a CO...(oooooo don't piss them off or you'll get denied!!!) That is a bunch of #######.

Paula is giving advice on other groups as well when she shouldn't. Not everthing works for everyone. That's so narrow minded. There are many many issues to consider.

I think that for one to dismiss advice, which appears on its face to be very wise counsel, is unreasonable. One should look at applying for a visa as one looks for applying for a job. There will be many factors involved in the consideration. I can't think of a greqt example at the moment, but with high fraud consulates, the bar has been raised. It just means that you are required to exceed their anticipations. As an example, if you knew that you lacked some experience that a job calls for, wouldn't you be prepared to address that proactively in an interview; wouldn't you try to stress something else that you bring to the table? To enter a job interview knowing that you are perhaps not presenting the same skills as someone else and then to be surprised at the outcome when you are not accepted, yet you do not do anything to level the playing field, is just not reasonable, in my opinion.