An ounce of prevention

[Danno 1,228]

As we all have watched the fragile state of the economy both in the USA and especially in the FSU

I wonder if those who have family (or others) over there... if they have taken or thought to taken any action .... considering what may be down the road.

From what my wife relays to me.. (from her reading the Russian news reports), The Govt is

of course say anything and every thing to head off panic or any such reaction.

a number of weeks ago, I told my MIL to start buying non perishable items, a few with each trip to the Market and start storing them.

Since one never knows what might unfold in the next few months to years, I would think this is a minimal and prudent move as prices and possibly availability might be a reality.

Has anyone given this consideration or taken any actions?

[reeses16 8]

We're definitely not stocking food away, although I can see where it may be a good idea for some. Our family in Ethiopia is focused on saving as much money as they can (and we send money to help)...the food prices have gone through the roof...doubling, tripling. They live in the capital so there is food available, but price is the issue. Our family in the US is focusing on paying out/not using credit cards...and building emergency funds in the event of layoffs. We've cut back on travel plans and that's about it.

[Blues Fairy 0]

Panic and storing food is a typical Russian reaction to impending "crisis". If I still had family in Russia, I would advise them to make sure they are indispensable at their jobs and have a couple of alternative earning opportunities lined up, just in case. I would also advise not to take any serious loans, even if they are already approved for such. Perhaps redistribute their savings equally between RUR, USD, and EUR accounts.

[Danno 1,228]

We're definitely not stocking food away, although I can see where it may be a good idea for some. Our family in Ethiopia is focused on saving as much money as they can (and we send money to help)...the food prices have gone through the roof...doubling, tripling. They live in the capital so there is food available, but price is the issue. Our family in the US is focusing on paying out/not using credit cards...and building emergency funds in the event of layoffs. We've cut back on travel plans and that's about it.

The idea of stocking-up on foods is two fold.

1. In case of future shortages.

As my MIL lives in St. Petersburg, this is not as likely as in some remote areas. (yet possible)

2. Head off buying later at highly inflated Prices.

She is on a pension, as you can imagine her income is small.

[slim 1,514]

How about an AK and a few thousand rounds? Seems like food would be easier to find if your MIL was packin!

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

How about an AK and a few thousand rounds? Seems like food would be easier to find if your MIL was packin!

or a sks.

[Danno 1,228]

I have an SKS... maybe I'll send it over as a Christmas gift.

[slim 1,514]

Seriously, for everyone, if you are thinking along the lines of a possible total economic collapse, and you don't own a gun, what are you thinking is going to help you get food? Are you going to wait in line for soup and bread that may be passed out by the government?

Just curious, what are you going to do?

[mox 298]

Seriously, for everyone, if you are thinking along the lines of a possible total economic collapse, and you don't own a gun, what are you thinking is going to help you get food? Are you going to wait in line for soup and bread that may be passed out by the government?

Just curious, what are you going to do?

I doubt I will shoot people and take their food, and if it really came down to having to hunt for my own food I'm pretty sure that competing the millions of other Californians with the same idea would be futile.

What you're talking about isn't just a total economic collapse, it's a complete collapse of society. We're so far away from that scenario that it's not even worth contemplating. The Federal government could literally spend the kinds of money they're spending on this bailout every year for the next 50 years and we still wouldn't collapse. Everyone (including myself) rolled their eyes when McCain said "the fundamentals of this economy are strong," but you know, he was right. The fundamentals are strong, it's just that when you pump garbage into the fundamentals, you get garbage out. My industry suffered through the dot com bubble burst, which was a microcosm of what the country is going through right now. Everyone predicted the end of the information age, and that it was all a fad. But the tech industry is still here, and civilization as you know it will also still be here when it's over.

What we are experiencing is one of those "storms of the century." It's bad. It's f*cking bad. But it will end in a couple years and society will continue to exist. Don't make jerky out of your cat just yet.

[KGSodie 0]

(putting his Ronco ® dehydrator back into its box)

Aw, man! No cat jerky?

[Brad and Vika 129]

Seriously, for everyone, if you are thinking along the lines of a possible total economic collapse, and you don't own a gun, what are you thinking is going to help you get food? Are you going to wait in line for soup and bread that may be passed out by the government?

Just curious, what are you going to do?

I doubt I will shoot people and take their food, and if it really came down to having to hunt for my own food I'm pretty sure that competing the millions of other Californians with the same idea would be futile.

What you're talking about isn't just a total economic collapse, it's a complete collapse of society. We're so far away from that scenario that it's not even worth contemplating. The Federal government could literally spend the kinds of money they're spending on this bailout every year for the next 50 years and we still wouldn't collapse. Everyone (including myself) rolled their eyes when McCain said "the fundamentals of this economy are strong," but you know, he was right. The fundamentals are strong, it's just that when you pump garbage into the fundamentals, you get garbage out. My industry suffered through the dot com bubble burst, which was a microcosm of what the country is going through right now. Everyone predicted the end of the information age, and that it was all a fad. But the tech industry is still here, and civilization as you know it will also still be here when it's over.

What we are experiencing is one of those "storms of the century." It's bad. It's f*cking bad. But it will end in a couple years and society will continue to exist. Don't make jerky out of your cat just yet.

I agree mox. Another 18 months or so and we will be moving the right direction again. If you have a job and can pay your bills, just try to ignore the noise in the system. An exception would be people with a mandatory or pre-agreed retirement date in '09. They should sweat it....

[slim 1,514]

I'm pretty sure that competing the millions of other Californians with the same idea would be futile.

It's not much of a competition when you're shooting and they're not!

It's f*cking bad. But it will end in a couple years and society will continue to exist.

I hope so, but I'm not going to pin my survival on mere hope. I will be prepared for the possibility of what happens if that hope fails. And you are correct, it's not just an economic meltdown that will cause this society to collapse, it'll be more. And in modern times, there is a lot more.

Before you go saying the Great Depression was somewhat similar but society still rebounded, I'd like for you to compare/contrast the average American of that day with the so-called Americans of today. Do you really think folks will live in peace and harmony while working on great projects funded by the government in hopes of resurrecting the economy?

I just can't see those who supported Obama's redistribution actually working for it. "#######? You mean I gotta build this bridge and sh!t just to get my money? Dint nobody tell me I gotta work for mines. Dat Obama is a gotdam liar." Somehow the "new deal" that will eventually have to come around to pay for all this stuff just isn't going to have the same appeal it had all those years ago. Society is different now. People are different now. America is different now.

I sincerely hope all the mumbo-jumbo works. I hope Obama is our best President ever because that will mean America will be better than ever. But...... like I said above, I'm not going to place my survival into the hands of mere hope alone.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I'm pretty sure that competing the millions of other Californians with the same idea would be futile.

It's not much of a competition when you're shooting and they're not!

It's f*cking bad. But it will end in a couple years and society will continue to exist.

I hope so, but I'm not going to pin my survival on mere hope. I will be prepared for the possibility of what happens if that hope fails. And you are correct, it's not just an economic meltdown that will cause this society to collapse, it'll be more. And in modern times, there is a lot more.

Before you go saying the Great Depression was somewhat similar but society still rebounded, I'd like for you to compare/contrast the average American of that day with the so-called Americans of today. Do you really think folks will live in peace and harmony while working on great projects funded by the government in hopes of resurrecting the economy?

I just can't see those who supported Obama's redistribution actually working for it. "#######? You mean I gotta build this bridge and sh!t just to get my money? Dint nobody tell me I gotta work for mines. Dat Obama is a gotdam liar." Somehow the "new deal" that will eventually have to come around to pay for all this stuff just isn't going to have the same appeal it had all those years ago. Society is different now. People are different now. America is different now.

I sincerely hope all the mumbo-jumbo works. I hope Obama is our best President ever because that will mean America will be better than ever. But...... like I said above, I'm not going to place my survival into the hands of mere hope alone.

It will be better, but that has nothing to do with the government tinkering with the markets. Even Milt Friedman didn't think that you can eliminate economic downturns by adjusting the money supply. Things will be better because econimies and markets are cyclical, and we are almost at the bottom of the trough.

When Paul Volcker ran the Fed, the economic cycle here was stretched way out. We used to have five or six years of expansion, then six to nine months of contraction. Monetary theory (avoiding inflation, etc. by adjusting the money supply through the Fed funds and prime interest rates) allowed us to stretch the growth part of the cycle out for sixteen years - so the contraction will logically be a couple of years long.

The current flood of liqiudity into the markets (the rescue/stimulus package(s)) will ultimately make things worse. The liquidity is prolonging the contraction by holding up the failure of businesses that should fail - and ultimately will fail anyway. Saying that a big bank didn't "fail" because it was absorbed before bankruptcy by another bank is just smoke and mirrors. There will be a rubber band effect caused by all the liquidity, and we may see inflation, high interest rates, and continued unemployment rises. The Obama crew is already planning a federal program to hide the unemployment numbers a year from now - more smoke. The Reagan team simply changed the definition of unemployed to the same end.

Like I keep saying, if your job is reasonably secure and you can pay the bills, ignore the situation. It will eventually improve on its own. You can dig a bigger fallout shelter if it amuses you - but you won't need it because of this.

[mox 298]

It's not much of a competition when you're shooting and they're not!

I think you underestimate the number of gun owners in CA. I don't know the exact numbers, but once you move away from the coast, California has a LOT of likely gun owners. And a lot of liberals such as myself are gun owners. If it really came down to having to hunt your own food, it would not be pretty.

Like I keep saying, if your job is reasonably secure and you can pay the bills, ignore the situation. It will eventually improve on its own. You can dig a bigger fallout shelter if it amuses you - but you won't need it because of this.

That pretty much sums up my feelings too. People were building bomb shelters and stocking up on ammunition for y2k, and it proved unnecessary. Giving in to the hysteria just eats up a lot of time, energy, and money that could be better spent IMO.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I assume that in a week or so after the end begins Californians will just begin eating each other.