Leave the US or not?

[Tree 0]

go for it

[Mrs. Diaz 1]

I'm not gonna tell you not to come to the USA I do really like this country, otherwise I would not have stayed myself, but if you are planning on adding kids to the mix in the near future, I just want to warn you how not-kid friendly the USA is.

You get, about 6 weeks off from work after having a baby, unpaid of course unless you are one in a million who is employed by a company that pays you. You will have to provide health insurance for this child which is very expensive, daycare can be pretty high too, depending on where in the USA you live. When you child is sick, you better hope the company you work for is very understanding, or they will take out any of you vacation days so you can stay home -hopefully you will not get sick yourself too, that even more UNPAID days off from work.

In Denmark where I am from we have very similar benefits Sweden and was horrified to learn how they do thing over here. Luckily, I had my daughter while I was college over here; I could take a semester off and stay home until my child was 6 mo. old - it should be a crime to expect a new mother to leave her child at 6 weeks!

We were planing on going back to Denmark because of the situation over here but at the last minute I was offered a well paid job and we have now filed for AOS instead. I hope things will get better soon and if you decide to come over here, I'm sure you will make it although your standard of living may be lowered for a while - it depends on where you are going and what kind of profession you plan on going into (finance/real estate is not doing very good (-: )

You might newer really notice anything except maybe slightly higher food prices. If you have already applied I would say you might as well go ahead with it and move over here and if things get worse you can always leave. That's what we plan on doing, and I think that is one of the benefits of marrying someone from a foreign country. And who is to say things won't get worse in Europe too - just look at Iceland!

good luck to whatever you decide, it's hard to predict what will come of all this really.

Yep. We do have a lot of benefits in Scandinavia, some times too many in my opinion...(people just want more and more) I didn't even think about that before I met my husband... You really have to earn things in the US. You wont get things unless you do something for it. I think that's the way it should be, but not about everything. One thing that I think is better in the US is that you don't pay cuz I want to have kids, that's how it works in Sweden. That is not fair to taxpayers without kids. Well no country is perfect...(If you find the perfect country, pls let me know!)

Well we haven't filed for the K-3 yet, we were going to do that in the beginning of next year. But we are not sure we want that anymore... We do want to live in the US, but starting a family just seem too hard over there. My husband is the one who said that we should move to Sweden, cuz he really knows how hard things can be over there.(He comes from a big family)I have mixed feelings about this right now. Don't know what to do next! But I guess we will give Sweden a try... I'm not so sure my husband will like it though, there is a huge difference in living here and just visiting. I know many Americans that just couldn't stand it here!(life IS very different here compared to the life in the US) And I guess that I would feel the same way about life in the US(if we can't afford a "good life")

I guess the best thing is to stay in Sweden, for now. Cuz I really don't think that we will have the money to start a family, not in the next 5-7 years...(we don't want to wait that long) I'm just afraid my husband will be miserable in Sweden...

Thank you so much for you comment! It's always good to hear someone's opinion!

[frali 2]

Having lived in Sweden myself... I would recommend for you to stay in Sweden a bit longer till you make a decision. If it wasn't for the weather I would have myself moved to Sweden. However, as my Swedish cousin says, "You will always be a rich POOR man in Sweden" (Of course he is referring to the high taxes one has to pay).

You are still young... you have a few years to play around with. If I was you I would enroll in a college in Sweden

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Reba 2]

Isn't Sweden a part of the EU? If it is, then isn't the whole of Europe open to you to immigrate to? If you don't want your husband to have to learn a new language (I'm guessing Swedish isn't that easy, but it can't be more difficult than learning English ) why not pick some other EU country and go there, where there's a large population of English speakers. But I've never met a Swede who didn't speak English, I'll also guess it won't be so difficult for your husband to get around for a while before he picks up a few phrases and eventually finds himself nearly fluent.

If you're both thinking of having children in the next handful of years, I'd seriously think about staying in Sweden or another EU country. Medical costs alone in the US can have you bankrupt just giving birth, and gods forbid if anything happens to the baby or you during birth (The US has the highest mortality rate in all the Western world for pregnant women, can you believe that! Also the highest rate of premies in the Western world, because of lack of prenatal care). Plus of course only 6 weeks maternity leave (UNpaid), and if the baby gets sick, as someone else metioned, you have to use up your precious little vacation time to care for it, or take an FMLA leave (UNpaid).

Medical insurance is another major cost. For just me and my husband I pay over $400 per month premiums, and then still have to pay out of pocket any time we visit the doctor. Depending what the visit is for, that can run anywhere from $10 to $100 if labs are needed.

There are small pockets of the US that have not been terribly hard hit by this recession, but if it goes on much longer, there won't be one single person here not affected by it. We have no way of knowing, short of getting a time machine, what the new year will bring.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

As you have a job and an apartment in Sweden it would seem like a good idea for you both to be there for a few years, start a family - take advantage of the more family friendly system.

I'm not sure what the rules are for Sweden and dual nationality but if there's the option of your husband staying long enough for that then you could DCF for the US visa (much quicker than the K3) and you could follow the US system through to citizenship and then in the future you could both live anywhere in the US or EU without any more visa hassles.

I would have loved to do a similar thing - I had a really good job with fantastic maternity cover in the UK - basically you could take a year off and still come back to your same job/pay with the option of part-time flexible work when you returned.

Unfortunately my husband isn't able to move to the UK for several years and that means I have had to give up my job and am about to move to the US. We are going to want to start a family as soon as possible and I am DREADING doing it within the US system.

Your husband sounds like he is used to travel and living within other countries/cultures - he may relish the challenge of living in Sweden for a few years. He will certainly then be more understanding of your move to the US when that happens.

[Otto 83]

If your husband is agreed to live overseas (Sweden or elsewhere) My advice is to give it a chance and go for it. Life is about a journey and the destination doesn't have to be the US.

The decision should be based on things other than the current financial crisis or benefits in your home country (those are valid of course) but rather on where you want to live, together, where you'll be happy. Millions of people find Europe (even Sweden ) a perfectly wonderful place to live, grow and raise a family. (Plus you can always come to the US later on.)

When the opportunity is right for us, we'll gladly move back to Germany - because it's where we love to be..

[Mrs. Diaz 1]

Having lived in Sweden myself... I would recommend for you to stay in Sweden a bit longer till you make a decision. If it wasn't for the weather I would have myself moved to Sweden. However, as my Swedish cousin says, "You will always be a rich POOR man in Sweden" (Of course he is referring to the high taxes one has to pay).

You are still young... you have a few years to play around with. If I was you I would enroll in a college in Sweden

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

The climate in Sweden is the following: Jan-April, Cold, windy, lots of rain or/and snow. May-July, Chilly/too hot, raining all the time OR too damn dry(in other words you are prohibited to light a fire, which means no BBQ on the beach) Aug-Sep, Super HOT! But some times quite nice... Too bad most people are back to work...(ppl always seem to forget summer does NOT start in June)Oct-Dec, Freezing! Windy, Rain or/and snow(not unusually both on the same week, on and off...) The weather and the high taxes, that is the 2 "issues" I have about Sweden and living there! If Sweden was a country in the Mediterranean, I am sure everyone would immigrate to Sweden!

I am thinking about going back to school(the university)actually! So I might just do that and work for 1-2 years.... Start a family and move to the US when the kids are in middle school or something.... Ha ha....

Thank you for your comment!

[Mrs. Diaz 1]

Isn't Sweden a part of the EU? If it is, then isn't the whole of Europe open to you to immigrate to? If you don't want your husband to have to learn a new language (I'm guessing Swedish isn't that easy, but it can't be more difficult than learning English ) why not pick some other EU country and go there, where there's a large population of English speakers. But I've never met a Swede who didn't speak English, I'll also guess it won't be so difficult for your husband to get around for a while before he picks up a few phrases and eventually finds himself nearly fluent.

If you're both thinking of having children in the next handful of years, I'd seriously think about staying in Sweden or another EU country. Medical costs alone in the US can have you bankrupt just giving birth, and gods forbid if anything happens to the baby or you during birth (The US has the highest mortality rate in all the Western world for pregnant women, can you believe that! Also the highest rate of premies in the Western world, because of lack of prenatal care). Plus of course only 6 weeks maternity leave (UNpaid), and if the baby gets sick, as someone else metioned, you have to use up your precious little vacation time to care for it, or take an FMLA leave (UNpaid).

Medical insurance is another major cost. For just me and my husband I pay over $400 per month premiums, and then still have to pay out of pocket any time we visit the doctor. Depending what the visit is for, that can run anywhere from $10 to $100 if labs are needed.

There are small pockets of the US that have not been terribly hard hit by this recession, but if it goes on much longer, there won't be one single person here not affected by it. We have no way of knowing, short of getting a time machine, what the new year will bring.

Yes, Sweden IS a part of the EU. I did look into this option... I was thinking that we could move to Spain, my husband speak Spanish and I will get fluent in 1 or 2 years I guess... There are thousands of Swedish citizens living(or just vacationing there) in Spain too, so I could probable get a job at a hotel where Scandinavians usually stays at.... My hubby wasn't too happy with that idea though! Ha ha... So I guess that's a no go!

I know that it is very expensive to have a child in the US(and many other countries) and it gets even worse if something should happen during the pregnancy or after the child is born. If you are not sure you will have a easy pregnancy/labor, nothing out of the ordinary, such as preeclampsia or a birth defect(no one can possible know that!)you are good to go! But if anything happens to you or the baby, you are alone to figure how to pay for the hospital care(surgeries, medication etc) That really scares me... Not that I am worrying about it, but IF.... This and knowing that I might not be able to pay for my and my family's health insurance makes me wanna stay in Sweden, but there are so many good things about living in America too... It's not always about the money! Money is not everything, but it sure makes a difference! It wont buy you love or happiness but it does put food on the table... So this is a really hard choice for us! If I had a million dollars on the bank, enough to pay for everything that my family will need... I would definitely choose the US over Sweden!

Well.... We still have a few months to decide on how to do with this! Your comment definitely helps a lot! Thank you so much for your point of view in this.

[Mrs. Diaz 1]

As you have a job and an apartment in Sweden it would seem like a good idea for you both to be there for a few years, start a family - take advantage of the more family friendly system.

I'm not sure what the rules are for Sweden and dual nationality but if there's the option of your husband staying long enough for that then you could DCF for the US visa (much quicker than the K3) and you could follow the US system through to citizenship and then in the future you could both live anywhere in the US or EU without any more visa hassles.

I would have loved to do a similar thing - I had a really good job with fantastic maternity cover in the UK - basically you could take a year off and still come back to your same job/pay with the option of part-time flexible work when you returned.

Unfortunately my husband isn't able to move to the UK for several years and that means I have had to give up my job and am about to move to the US. We are going to want to start a family as soon as possible and I am DREADING doing it within the US system.

Your husband sounds like he is used to travel and living within other countries/cultures - he may relish the challenge of living in Sweden for a few years. He will certainly then be more understanding of your move to the US when that happens.

Hi there!

Thank you so much for you comment! The things that you are saying makes much sense. I do think that staying in Sweden is the best thing to do, at least for the next 4-5 years or so... Until the kid/kids are a bit older.(less costs etc) I understand that the difference between the UK and the USA is huge!(when it comes to maternity leave etc)But.... I am sure that your life in the US will be so much better, cuz you will be with your husband! That's what really matters in the end. Too bad your hubby can't move to the UK... But that's life! Ha ha... I guess we can't have it all!(I wish though)

All the best to you and your husband! Good luck in your new country.... (Ps. You can take hubby with you back home to the UK in a few years, in case the US doesn't work out for you)

[Mrs. Diaz 1]

If your husband is agreed to live overseas (Sweden or elsewhere) My advice is to give it a chance and go for it. Life is about a journey and the destination doesn't have to be the US.

The decision should be based on things other than the current financial crisis or benefits in your home country (those are valid of course) but rather on where you want to live, together, where you'll be happy. Millions of people find Europe (even Sweden ) a perfectly wonderful place to live, grow and raise a family. (Plus you can always come to the US later on.)

When the opportunity is right for us, we'll gladly move back to Germany - because it's where we love to be..

You are absolutely right! It isn't about the money, it does count though... I would go anywhere in the world, if I knew we would make it there! I don't need a big house, cars and other things... All I ever wanted is my husband, a family some day and food on the table. I am a very simple girl, my husband is the same way.... I just don't want to make a bad choice, cuz that is about our kids future. I don't want them to grow up in a shady neighborhood with no money, no nothing! My husband never had a bike when he was a little boy, that was his dream. When he got older he made a promise to himself, that one day when he will be a father, that's what he will do... give a bike to his kid. I want to make that happen cuz I know that would make my husband really happy! I'm not sure that will be possible if we decide to live in the US...(this is if things would go downhill for, I mean get really bad! lol) I know for sure this will happen if we decide on living in Sweden....

So.... We have 2 options. A, Stay in "safe" Sweden, pay those crazy taxes...(we will always have food on the table tho) B, Take a chance and go with the US... We might end up in a nice house on the wealthy side of the city.... OR end up in the trailer park next to the city dump! (of course there are things in between those two options too! It's like the lottery, you never know about America... lol)

Whatever we'll decide on, we will win some and we will lose some.... But, hey... that's life! You can have it all...(I wish tho) Thank you so much for your comment! I feel a lot better and less confused about things now....(thanks to everyone who took their time to write a reply!)

[Reba 2]

Where in the US are you thinking of living? Do you have an idea on which state and city? Because you may run into high taxes there as well, with fewer government services and benefits to show for your money. If Sweden actually gives you something for your money, heck, stay there! If your taxes in the US will be significantly lower (each state and city varies) and they actually do something with your money, then consider that. But I don't imagine the taxes really are all that high in Sweden once you consider what your government is giving you with those tax dollars. Like universal healthcare, paid maternity leave, etc etc etc...then consider that in the US, you're paying for all of that yourself out of pocket. I'm paying the equivalent here in North Carolina in income taxes as I would be paying back home in Ontario, and here in NC, and I can't figure out what the heck they're spending my money on! At least back home I'd have healthcare etc...

If you both end up with low wage jobs, its really difficult to make it here these days. Costs of everything (except petrol lately!) keep going up and up, but wages continue to stay stagnant, and in some cases have been cut.

You're right, money doesn't buy you love nor happiness, but weigh the pros and cons of each area you're considering to live in, not just one country vs. the other. The US is vastly different from coast to coast, quality and cost of living is as well.

[Ensamvarg 6]

What's money without happiness?

If your husband can stand living in Sweden then try it. My wife visited Sweden on our honeymoon and not speaking the language drove her nuts in 3 days and she started feeling really isolated.

It could have been because I hadn't been home in 3 years so everyone was trying to grab my attention and such but do not underestimate the impact it might have on your husband when he can't understand people around him.

Many a time have I thought to bring my wife to Sweden and if not live there at least do an extended tour of duty over there so she can truly see how amazing Sweden and its people can be.

I have been here in the states long enough to not miss it terribly much anymore but I can't wait to take her hiking in Fjallen soon.

Good luck with whichever way you both decide to go!!

[JoBri 545]

Hmmm, interesting. I have been considering leaving the USA too, if my wife should fail to be approved for a visa within the next 2 years. I guess that is plan B for me, hehe. Maybe move to Singapore where they are at 3 mil and want to be at 7 mil, or to Australia where her uncle lives.