Mahr - What Determines Worth?

[Y's_habibitk 2]

sad.............but i guess when guys have to drp that much money along w their families for a greencard,they think twice about leaving...good jon narina...get a couple thousand more out of them in my name...at least you got some dough

true love exists people............never give up......i lost a billion dollars 2 months ago and no gold in the world will ever bring that treasure back

I'm sorry for what you went through. My husband doesn't need a greencard. He's from a VWP country. His brothers are also US citizens and have been here for over 20 years (that's how our families know one another). I'm not worried about being used for a greencard, because he could have come to America years ago. I didn't ask for a large mahr, I was given one. His family is kinda wealthy. Even more than my family. His concern would not be losing money if he divorced me. His concern would be the rift it could cause between our families as we have other family members who are married to each other.

It's a fact that you have a 50/50 chance of your marriage working. The divorce rate is 50% or maybe even more now. Well it's the same thing with an American marrying a foreigner. If you don't really know the person and you just meet on vacation or over the internet, there's always gonna be the possibility that you're being used. It's something that everyone who decides to marry a foreigner, has to think about. A close friend of mine married an Indian guy. She should have suspected something was up because their marriage was a nightmare. Sure enough, as soon as they denied his I-130 he was bye bye!

I know MENA men use American women. I was in Egypt just last month and our tour guide was talking to me in Arabic, telling me how his best friend married a British woman who is older than him, just for papers. Once his friend got to the UK he offered the tour guide a chance to hook him up with another old lady and the tour guide turned down the offer. So not all of them are users, but some of them are. In March 2007 I was in Morocco and heard the same stories. I'm sure they tell me this because I talk to them in Arabic and they feel that I won't take offense. They would never admit it to just anybody. Yeah, it happens, and alot!

I know that in 5 years, there's gonna be alot of women on here telling the same sad story you've told. For that, I'm truly sorry. You don't deserve that. I hope you find someone new that will make you so happy you'll forget the sadness you're in now.

Um... I understand that is a reality but seriously... be nice. A lot of us are/will/did struggle with our marriages and you're not exactly giving us something to look forward to. It's probably "easier" for you because of your culture. I'm just saying (regardless of what you've said in the past and regardless of what others are saying about you) you need to be a little nicer. We are trying to stay positive. We need support.

Like I said, I know the green card thing is a reality but it isn't necessarily OUR reality. We're all happy (genuinely) that you have a great marriage, a great husband, a big mahr etc, but you're being a bit .... stuck up about it. I don't think the way it is coming off is the way you intend. I just want you to know how these messages are being perceived. It SOUNDS like you're saying: My marriage is perfect. I have gold, and I go on trips and my marriage will never end. But you're all American and those marriages usually don't last and he's only there to get a green card.

Honestly, congratulations on your happy marriage. I hope it continues. But just understand how some of your comments are coming off. Please.

So, some memebers are allowed to elude to the fact that we're all being used for a GC, but others arent supposed to say that SOME will end up that way?

Honestly? I dont think ANYONE should even bring it up unless someone asks SPECIFICALLY for advise on the subject OR they say it first... others here, will jump to conclusions and write 8 paragraph posts about how "you should leave him" "he's using you" "just wait"...ect ect and everyone is silent!

People dont want to read that stuff!

Lisa

I think everyone should cool down. Period. I'm not putting the blame on any ONE person. Sorry if I come off that way.

Honestly, I don't like stepping on toes. I hope I'm not.

I really dont think you mean any harm. I just have issue when someone says 1/4 of what another poster has said and they get jumped on... its ridiculous and unfair.

I remember when i first joined VJ, I used to read the MENA forum and be: Then it cooled down for a while. Now, I guess its the cycle.... oh ya, and we have people coming into the forum, just for drama

i honestly think most of the people on the forum have not experienced a real tragedy,,, marriage testing experience. Its easy to be happy when things are good but when times are bad, you get peoples real opinions

I personally feel very comfortable with mena people and even though my spouse did me very dirty on levels that are beyond comprehension, I came into this relationship knowing all I knew with stern warnings from all my mena friends NOT to marry someone younger than me or who needed papers. I ignored them . They point blank asked me why I was entering into the relationship with the vast amount of experiences I had both good and bad. I told them I was in love. Flag after flag went up and I refused to listen. I ended up with a treasure that I lost and then he abandoned me with debt and grief at at this point, I believe cannot come to terms with both how he has treated me and he cant seem to understand why my family venemously hates him. My family was quiet and calm in other situations but it was the combination of his familys duplicity and enabling him to do the things he did without demanding accountability and steadfastness that sent my mom off the deep end. many of these guys succeed in duping over a 5 year period. I had a situation that pushed things to a head very fast.. gees it would have caused an american to flip

All I can say is this....not all mixed mena marriages will end. But for people to ignore the stuff Narina says about these guys seeking out women to dupe and actively doing it and then laughing about it which she definitely will concur with me on this one is freaking irresponsible. Yes, there are predatory men in foreign countries and babies it aint just mena.. take a look at changes forum( the one that says changes or something) and its a pattern of men in non western countries of taking women for a ride till they get their papers. I had personal tragedy mixed into mine and I think my husband actually has guilt and issues about the ####### he has done. Its affected my children.. I cannot emphasize this enough. Do not . Do not be unprepared for this. If you have any inkling that something may be up, listen to your gut. Buy spector pro, do some snooping with screen shot software and look at incoming and out going email shots. If someone loves you , they dont cam and talk to other people.

The sad thing is even super smart people get duped. I will tell you that on some level my husband loves me. Is it enough to stay with me? Is it enough to ride through what we have been through. Ill know in a little while. I just want to tell y ou that that yes, this is a risk. Not talked about to the level that you will have people who will talk about it privately as a joke and then publicly act like it never happens giving you some dumb ### success examplees.. I actually have a client from Morocco presently who when she found out I may be getting a divorce wanted to introduce me to her family . I was like ARE YOU ON CRACK? She actually described him as a guy in his 20s who said he would marry anything and then said EVEN BLACK ( racist lovely) and then said to me I am sure he would like you.. ( this girl mind you knew me knocked up and is presently a client of mine and knows what happened. You can deduce the rest of it yourself) I was mortified..I have to look at her with a straight face, knowing things my husband did to me,,, knowing the tragedy I ve endured and to have her tell me she wanted to introduce me to a shiftless loser relative of hers. Oh yeah, I am catch

Y habibtyk. I know you mean well . But girly, y ou are in your 20s. It really isnt a stretch for him to love you. but for gods sakes let s be honest with each other. I dont want to be lied to anymore by anyone about anything.. not even other arabs trying to defend his stupid ###. You guys know the truth..Ill listen to american women anyday. I dont for a minute consider myself really loved or that I was a real wife to ANYONE in his family. I found that out when I lost the dream I waited 3 quarters of a year for when they all called and yelled at me for crying too much... and then enabled him not to face up to any responsibility

Here it is. Insinuating that he could probably love me because i am young. btw- i turned 30 this year LOL

Thats the issue that i have. You are saying ONCE AGAIN, that yes, if you are young.. you have a chance..but otherwise, no.

Give me a break! You are always posting about true love is really out there ect ect, but yet.. its like you p*ss all over everyones hopes here. Its sad.

Everyone feels bad for what happened to you. But, you were writing this type of stuff BEFORE your husband even got here. When i first joined the site last year, you were posting this type of thing.

I dont disagree with you that it happens. Everyone with half a brain knows that. Im not saying lets all paint rainbows and sing kumbya...im saying lets not put negative, dagnerous ideas into someones head who may be in an otherwise happy relationship. Its not necessary to paint a drak dismal picture for everyone. Some people are VERY immpressionable. I know that you feel like you are helping somehow and maybe there are women who havent thought "am i being used?" but really....who doesnt say that at first.

If you see red flag after red flag and continue on; it doesnt matter if you read some "warning" on some website, does it?

If someone cant ask themselves those hard questions and answer them honestly.... well, thats on them. Its not your personal responsibility to "make them see the truth".

Thats my 2 cents on the matter

Lisa

[notime4haterz 0]

Hope you ain't talking about me. I actually DO have friends in here, and I used to drop in much more frequently than I do now. I don't visit the MENA forum just for drama. I read posts in here to learn stuff, too. The drama is an added bonus.

Gee, why would she mean you????

By the way, nice signature! I guess blondes do have more fun! As well as more mahr!!!

I couldn't help but notice the picture of all the junk jewelery. You could always sell it and get a few bucks.

Just another hater...please look past the pic honey and see, I have no time for haters. And thanks, but I don't need extra cash, I got plenty!

[Ban Hammer 13,282]

I believe it was golden coochie, and you're the one who came up with that term...

correct in the above, my bad - post 144.

however, firing back with this certainly didn't douse the fire.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2402111

Edited November 20, 2008 by charles!

[notime4haterz 0]

I am trying to explain that I'm not in a situation where the greencard is an issue.

Actually, you are. You put yourself in the greencard issue as soon as you and your husband decided that he wanted to come to the US to live with you. I don't care if he's part of the VWP, he still has to have a greencard to reside in the US. He can travel to the US, hang out with you, but he can't work or earn any type of living.

So now, you're just like everyone else. Welcome to our world of waiting around for NOAs, interviews with DOS and USCIS, welcome to finding out how your life will hang in the balance when it is at the mercy of some immigration bureaucrat who just so happens to be loaded up with a thousand other cases. I'm fortunate that my husband is all done with this and became a USC in July, but I still support all the men and women here who continue to walk the line. And your husband might have brothers who are USCs, but he wouldn't be eligible for an I-130 for about a good 11 years because of the orders of sponsorship. So, welcome to the fight. Your hubby may or may not have needed a greencard for him to stay in the Netherlands and make a little US bootycall, but he sure as hell will need one to maneuver through the good ole US of A. Good luck with that. You're gonna need it.

You're assuming my husband needs to work. But if I say he doesn't need to work, you'll all call me a snob. So I'm not going to justify my position on the greencard issue anymore. He's had the ability to come here 20 years ago when he was a young boy. He chose not to come because he liked Europe better. Yes, we have to wait for the I-130 so that he doesn't have to leave every 90 days. In the mean time, I visit him every other month. While the wait is long and frustrating, I try to see the positive side of things. I focus on the good part of being able to see him often, rather than only the bad part of being away from him.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Well, I did mean you. I realize you have friends here...thats obvious.

Oooook, so they dont come JUST for drama.... they just like to stir it up when the opportunity arises

which still isnt cool.

I know we haven't really run into each other elsewhere on the board, so you probably don't know me very well. Yes, I can be a complete and total ####. But there is always a reason for me to be such. If you read the original exchange in one of the closed threads, you'll see that I didn't intend to start anything. I posted 4 humorous lines about MENA relationships. I didn't make them up. They were collected by me from comments made by MENA posters. We both know that examples of each and every one of those 4 things are in the MENA forum. My posting them was intended to by amusing to those who don't fit any of those four things.

"Someone" got bent out of shape over them. I even posted earlier on that there was no reason to get defensive if they didn't apply to you... that I had posted them in jest. It was still mostly amusing until comments were made about about me "buying" my wife from Russia or Asia. Mags wasn't bovvered though, so I didn't worry about it. But when the "rotten coochie" comment was made....well, Platy got not so nice and full d!ckhead mode was enabled.

I like to joke around, and I can take it as well as dish it out. I don't deal well with people bringing Mags into it, though.

So.....yeah. I didn't intend to piss all over 'your' forum - since I'm a scary outsider. I really DID want to learn more about the dowry/mahr thing from people other than the ones I talk to over at Expats. Not acting like a martyr or anything, because I HAVE been chopf##k. But ya need to look at where it all began before ya blame the Platy.

the problem is that when you really love someone , some people will throw their families away (not listening to parents or others) who are clearly people who have endured all their lives with them and not listen. Some of the women who get involved with these guys are clearly blindsided 5 years later and never saw it coming. I think you face risks when you marry an american.. they can use you for money, to build credit , they can do all the same things and leave you in the dust..it isnt just mena...look at the effects board. the problem is that there are no real resources for the women post break up or a collective place where people can get honest answers and there is like a wall that goes up with other mena people when you want to talk about it. I mean I would meet lebanese guys and turkish guys who married for greencards and would just trash their american wives ( oh she did drugs,,, or she didnt work) or some other ####### when they were sitting with their new wives from back home and I could only just sit there ( I went to the mosque with them) and for some reason they would just talk openly . It mortified me.

My daughter is arab. Her father used a puerto rican girl for a greencard 10 years ago and left her without divorcing her with a ton of debt. So in some ways that girl... her name was Lisette and she was from the bronx and she met him on yahoo in 1998 and married him and filed DCF and brought him over here to New York. He just abandoned her when he got his permanent card which back then came in less than 2years. My daughter who I loved and adored only came to be because a beautiful sweet puerto rican girl was taken for a ride and abused. He would have never been here if she didnt love and trust him. I thank Lisette every once in a while in my heart because I wouldnt have my girl if it wasnt for greencard fraud. I have reasons I think the way I do guys..They arent idle ones.. I know.. I have been there and witnessed the stuff I talk about....and it isnt everyones story.. But it does happen. its prevalent and NOT CONDEMMED by alot of people from over there

[notime4haterz 0]

I believe it was golden coochie, and you're the one who came up with that term...

correct in the above, my bad - post 144.

however, firing back with this certainly didn't douse the fire.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2402111

Yeah, I believe he told Lisa to look at where it started, so I put in that correction...I didn't start it, but I did come back at em, I admit that.

Thanks Charles! Can I have another medal? LOOOOL

[notime4haterz 0]

Hanginginthere, I hope you find happiness and that alot of good comes to you, to erase all the bad that you had to endure.

Yeah, it's a fact. People don't like to hear it, and it makes them angry. But it's a fact. Stuff like this happens, and I agree that you should warn people so that they don't get into a bad situation.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I believe it was golden coochie, and you're the one who came up with that term...

correct in the above, my bad - post 144.

however, firing back with this certainly didn't douse the fire.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2402111

Yeah, I believe he told Lisa to look at where it started, so I put in that correction...I didn't start it, but I did come back at em, I admit that.

Thanks Charles! Can I have another medal? LOOOOL

Why exactly are you posting pictures of your gold on here? Its tasteless , tacky and strange.

Why are you emphasising your blondness when its chemical and not natural? Also strange

You make lots of interesting points but you are arrogant as hell about your looks and god knows what else. I know you mean well but are you reading what you are posting? Do think its in good taste to post wedding jewelry photos?

[Y's_habibitk 2]

Well, I did mean you. I realize you have friends here...thats obvious.

Oooook, so they dont come JUST for drama.... they just like to stir it up when the opportunity arises

which still isnt cool.

I know we haven't really run into each other elsewhere on the board, so you probably don't know me very well. Yes, I can be a complete and total ####. But there is always a reason for me to be such. If you read the original exchange in one of the closed threads, you'll see that I didn't intend to start anything. I posted 4 humorous lines about MENA relationships. I didn't make them up. They were collected by me from comments made by MENA posters. We both know that examples of each and every one of those 4 things are in the MENA forum. My posting them was intended to by amusing to those who don't fit any of those four things.

"Someone" got bent out of shape over them. I even posted earlier on that there was no reason to get defensive if they didn't apply to you... that I had posted them in jest. It was still mostly amusing until comments were made about about me "buying" my wife from Russia or Asia. Mags wasn't bovvered though, so I didn't worry about it. But when the "rotten coochie" comment was made....well, Platy got not so nice and full d!ckhead mode was enabled.

I like to joke around, and I can take it as well as dish it out. I don't deal well with people bringing Mags into it, though.

So.....yeah. I didn't intend to piss all over 'your' forum - since I'm a scary outsider. I really DID want to learn more about the dowry/mahr thing from people other than the ones I talk to over at Expats. Not acting like a martyr or anything, because I HAVE been chopf##k. But ya need to look at where it all began before ya blame the Platy.

Well I do appreciate the explaination. But, you started it, you started it.

I did read the original post of "the list". I was immediately offended because of the "retarded" comment. the other things didnt bother me at all. If you just posted without that comment, I probably wouldnt have thought a thing of it..just oh, he must be bored

and you arent scary.

I also understand that you were p*ssed if someone made a comment about your wife. However, carrying it on and on is just unecessary. Bringing your cronies onboard is also uncool IMHO.

It's like watching a mad highschooler get all of his friends, then get a mob mentality going and standing back laughing.

Hopefully everyone can chill out and stop the bashing. Im a little ashamed that some of the women on this board so freely drew out their claws and got to "mobbn" also.

Lisa

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Hanginginthere, I hope you find happiness and that alot of good comes to you, to erase all the bad that you had to endure.

Yeah, it's a fact. People don't like to hear it, and it makes them angry. But it's a fact. Stuff like this happens, and I agree that you should warn people so that they don't get into a bad situation.

well I take all that back. I am no Martha Stewart and I don t think I have any right to decide ####### is good taste or not.. I am a freaking dumbass

[PlatyPius 5]

And yet, out of all of the people who read my original post in the closed thread, only the Queen got bent out of shape about it. Everyone else knew it was a joke, or assumed I was just trying to start drama, and left it alone. Don't blame me for your own insecurity.

You think I don't hear stuff all the time about "smelly Brits with rotten teeth" and ####### like that? Of course I do. Do I realize that it is usually in jest? Yes. So do I go on a vendetta against those people and essentially whip my willy out and proudly proclaim it to be bigger than anyone else's? No.

The only people who were offended by my OP are the one(s) who saw themselves therein, or who just like to b1tch and moan.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Well, I did mean you. I realize you have friends here...thats obvious.

Oooook, so they dont come JUST for drama.... they just like to stir it up when the opportunity arises

which still isnt cool.

I know we haven't really run into each other elsewhere on the board, so you probably don't know me very well. Yes, I can be a complete and total ####. But there is always a reason for me to be such. If you read the original exchange in one of the closed threads, you'll see that I didn't intend to start anything. I posted 4 humorous lines about MENA relationships. I didn't make them up. They were collected by me from comments made by MENA posters. We both know that examples of each and every one of those 4 things are in the MENA forum. My posting them was intended to by amusing to those who don't fit any of those four things.

"Someone" got bent out of shape over them. I even posted earlier on that there was no reason to get defensive if they didn't apply to you... that I had posted them in jest. It was still mostly amusing until comments were made about about me "buying" my wife from Russia or Asia. Mags wasn't bovvered though, so I didn't worry about it. But when the "rotten coochie" comment was made....well, Platy got not so nice and full d!ckhead mode was enabled.

I like to joke around, and I can take it as well as dish it out. I don't deal well with people bringing Mags into it, though.

So.....yeah. I didn't intend to piss all over 'your' forum - since I'm a scary outsider. I really DID want to learn more about the dowry/mahr thing from people other than the ones I talk to over at Expats. Not acting like a martyr or anything, because I HAVE been chopf##k. But ya need to look at where it all began before ya blame the Platy.

Well I do appreciate the explaination. But, you started it, you started it.

I did read the original post of "the list". I was immediately offended because of the "retarded" comment. the other things didnt bother me at all. If you just posted without that comment, I probably wouldnt have thought a thing of it..just oh, he must be bored

and you arent scary.

I also understand that you were p*ssed if someone made a comment about your wife. However, carrying it on and on is just unecessary. Bringing your cronies onboard is also uncool IMHO.

It's like watching a mad highschooler get all of his friends, then get a mob mentality going and standing back laughing.

Hopefully everyone can chill out and stop the bashing. Im a little ashamed that some of the women on this board so freely drew out their claws and got to "mobbn" also.

Lisa

Well everyone is needed on here.. not just the negatives. You seem to have a real love story and yes there will be love stories. I just wish someone would have hit me with the stupid stick and knocked me out a long damn time ago. My life is absolutely ruined by this last year. Ruined beyond belief.. I would never wish that on ANYONE

I believe it was golden coochie, and you're the one who came up with that term...

correct in the above, my bad - post 144.

however, firing back with this certainly didn't douse the fire.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2402111

Yeah, I believe he told Lisa to look at where it started, so I put in that correction...I didn't start it, but I did come back at em, I admit that.

Thanks Charles! Can I have another medal? LOOOOL

Why exactly are you posting pictures of your gold on here? Its tasteless , tacky and strange.

Why are you emphasising your blondness when its chemical and not natural? Also strange

You make lots of interesting points but you are arrogant as hell about your looks and god knows what else. I know you mean well but are you reading what you are posting? Do think its in good taste to post wedding jewelry photos?

PS... I apologise for the strange comments.. I have no right to judge people as strange... again I am a dumb ###. You got more out of the last year than I did...More power to you if at least you walk with free trips and gold. Thats more than I got

[PlatyPius 5]

I also understand that you were p*ssed if someone made a comment about your wife. However, carrying it on and on is just unecessary. Bringing your cronies onboard is also uncool IMHO.

It's like watching a mad highschooler get all of his friends, then get a mob mentality going and standing back laughing.

Hopefully everyone can chill out and stop the bashing. Im a little ashamed that some of the women on this board so freely drew out their claws and got to "mobbn" also.

Lisa

For the record, I didn't bring anyone over, nor did I ask them to take up the torch. There was already a topic at Expats about that thread, so I posted about the latest in there as a means to rant and curse and complain. If people felt the desire to come over to VJ and post their feelings about it, that's entirely up to them. I didn't recruit them.

(Except for the Cash for Gold thing. lol)

Edited November 20, 2008 by PlatyPius

[Y's_habibitk 2]

I believe it was golden coochie, and you're the one who came up with that term...

correct in the above, my bad - post 144.

however, firing back with this certainly didn't douse the fire.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2402111

Yeah, I believe he told Lisa to look at where it started, so I put in that correction...I didn't start it, but I did come back at em, I admit that.

Thanks Charles! Can I have another medal? LOOOOL

aha, so the "coochie" comment was a comeback.. i thought thats what i remembered. But, being the kind hearted person that i am, ha! i gave the benefit of the doubt.

[Ban Hammer 13,282]

.. I am a freaking dumbass hot babe

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