Things rough for me too!

[brnidokiegurl 0]

yes this is true, you can not completely isolate and it is a adjustment from both sides. The prob comes when they dont go try but sit on computer even to point of find other women etc. there is no standard ever here because each couple will always be different with different outlooks...when each tells a story the rest of us just have to listen and remember some steps we may be in at a later time ourselves

[caybee 21]

yes this is true, you can not completely isolate and it is a adjustment from both sides. The prob comes when they dont go try but sit on computer even to point of find other women etc. there is no standard ever here because each couple will always be different with different outlooks...when each tells a story the rest of us just have to listen and remember some steps we may be in at a later time ourselves

I agree completely. I wouldn't tolerate using the Internet for seeking out other women, and I don't know any woman who would. And as you said, everyone has different expectations that they, hopefully, have discussed with their partner before starting the journey, but even then they can be taken by suprise. Only the person going through it can ultimately decide what is acceptable behavior and what is not. I was just trying to say that some of the symptoms of relationships that become intolerable can be identical to symptoms of the adjustment itself in the beginning. I would hate for someone whose spouse hasn't yet arrived to see excessive Internet use in the beginning and have their heart sink thinking it was the beginning of the end. It's only one part of a much larger picture. That's one reason I'm so grateful for VJ, above and beyond getting that that visa. Being able to compare notes and see how much many of us have in common, including the obstacles and frustrations, has been priceless for us.

[star_dragon 0]

yes this is true, you can not completely isolate and it is a adjustment from both sides. The prob comes when they dont go try but sit on computer even to point of find other women etc. there is no standard ever here because each couple will always be different with different outlooks...when each tells a story the rest of us just have to listen and remember some steps we may be in at a later time ourselves

I agree completely. I wouldn't tolerate using the Internet for seeking out other women, and I don't know any woman who would. And as you said, everyone has different expectations that they, hopefully, have discussed with their partner before starting the journey, but even then they can be taken by suprise. Only the person going through it can ultimately decide what is acceptable behavior and what is not. I was just trying to say that some of the symptoms of relationships that become intolerable can be identical to symptoms of the adjustment itself in the beginning. I would hate for someone whose spouse hasn't yet arrived to see excessive Internet use in the beginning and have their heart sink thinking it was the beginning of the end. It's only one part of a much larger picture. That's one reason I'm so grateful for VJ, above and beyond getting that that visa. Being able to compare notes and see how much many of us have in common, including the obstacles and frustrations, has been priceless for us.

[morocco4ever 63]

Who ever said life was fair? Im still looking for that bast##d.

Let me know when you find him, I have a foot I would like to place in a specific part of his body for lying.

yes this is true, you can not completely isolate and it is a adjustment from both sides. The prob comes when they dont go try but sit on computer even to point of find other women etc. there is no standard ever here because each couple will always be different with different outlooks...when each tells a story the rest of us just have to listen and remember some steps we may be in at a later time ourselves

This really is a situation by situation thing isn't it. My husband spent a lot of his time on the internet in the beginning. He was bored to tears, and had nothing to do while I was at work. He spent a lot of time talking to his family and friends. He spends a lot less time now talking to his friends since he found out that they weren't what he thought they were. Now that he has been here for awhile he does spend less time on the computer, but he still is on it with family whenever possible. In fact he is talking to his brother now. We have been together long enough that it works for us. Although at first I was ignored a little, when I told him he wasn't on as much. Once in a while I need to give him a reminder (hehe). I have never had to worry that he is looking for other women while he is on. He just isn't that type. But there are those men that will look. It is who they are really from day one. If they aren't doing it on the computer they will in the workforce, at the store, the mall, hanging out with friends. This really has nothing to do with spending a lot of time on the computer or with boredom, they are just immoral jerks.

[bhajishah 4]

nice posts/advices from strong realistic sisters!!! keep hanging with them op if marriage, things doesnt work out you still have good support here!

[bhajishah 4]

He should hsve put the computer down and held you close.. Ur right family may not be able to help with this. but do keep them in the know. k

[tammy2688 1]

Most middle eastern men are aloof - out of the hundreds I know in my life and from hearing stories of my aunts family....thats exactly how all of them are. Generally not bad, but not the connecting with wife and being a soft shoulder type.

Tina you have to forget about the warmness you want and focus more on getting him intot he shape you need him to be in. I don't think he will change, my mother tried more than 2 decades and still no luck. I told her to focus on herself from now on. You do the same. If he gives extra support, good - if not, then you got yourself to fall back on. This visa journey is miserable enough, he should understand your pain but i find few husbands do.

see if you guys can get more activites together and i think he just isnt understanding the reality of it all - the more he loves you, the more you would love him back and there would be harmony

he may not understand it today or tomorrow but maybe in a few years when he gets the hang of life here

sending you my love, your friend

tam

Edited October 19, 2008 by tammy2688

[nunyab 0]

you know it's funny we're talking about internet activity and my prior statement but now looking back when i was there for almost 2 months the last time i was on the internet daily talking to my family and friends just to let them know how things were going and sending pics etc and working on visajourney hehe... he got to a point when he would come in and be stern with me about how long i was on. LMAO!!!!

Great reminder insh'aallah. When he is here will someone remind me of this story when i come on complaining about his internet use? When he gets here insha'allah?????

[S and S 12]

FWIW, his Internet connection and cell phone when he arrived were probably two of the most important tools in my husband's adjustment. He made voice/video calls home on the computer using Skype, constantly in the beginning, and he used the phone for connecting with new friends here, some of whom I frankly did not care for. I never tried to curtail his use of either one, although there were certainly weeks, maybe months, where he spent most of the day online. There were times neither of us could see progress in his adjustment, but it was happening beneath the surface. He learned to use Craigslist and started throwing resumes out there in his halting English. Sometimes he asked me to clean them up for him first, and sometimes he just did his thing, shotgun approach. He went out with new acquaintances only to learn they didn't have his best interests at heart. He fell on his face many times, and every time he did, he learned something. If I'd taken that computer away, even when I was feeling overworked and he was keeping the sofa warm, in our case, it would likely have damaged our relationship because it truly was a lifeline for him. There were days when the only thing that helped was seeing his parents and sibs crammed into the view of the webcam, everyone chattering at once, and yeah, for many hours.

I don't say this to discount what several people have gone through with lack of communication, lack of affection, sometimes outright abuse, and an apparent lack of interest in the marriage by the immigrant spouse. They have my deepest sympathy and support in making the tough decisions that only they are qualified to make. All I'm saying is that not every MENA man who comes here and burns up the Internet for a few months when it seems to us that they could be doing something more productive is going to continue that way forever. I believe many, perhaps most MENA men don't want to dump everything on their wives. They want to get out there and pull their weight, but the adjustment can be so overwhelming that it can immobilize them for a while. That's annoying as anything, especially when the USC has been busting it just trying to juggle everything long enough for him to arrive, and then for him to get here and seemingly just park it... I know, really. But in many cases where the relationship is otherwise respectful on both sides, if the USC is able to hang in there just a bit longer, through the moodiness and inactivity while he fights to adjust, both partners may find themselves on the other side of the cloud face to face with the "real" partner they fell in love with in the first place.

That is really good advice I will keep in mind when my husband comes. The one thing I thank God for is my husband is always concerned about my well being. He freaks out if I have even a minor injury and he always wants to know how my day is. I can't tell you how many times he was sneaking hugs whenever no one was looking. We used to sit on the balcony of his apartment (which was on the 1st floor) and drink tea. He always wanted me to put my feet up on him though I suspect people in the buildings accross from us could see it, lol. We began to know which ones were watching us each day. We often held hands out on the street even when the old women gave us dirty looks for it, lol.

As for our attitudes, we often show our worst to each other. I am never afraid to show I am in a bad mood. If he feels I am being rude or disrespectful then he tells me. If I don't like how he acts, I tell him. We may not live together yet, but we really try to be real with each other. Some days we fight and it could be over something silly. Mostly though, i noticed the arguing has become less the longer we wait to be together. We have been learning each other's moods and know what we can say or not say. I'm interested to see all the new things we will face once he is here. I think we will have to relearn some things as we didn't face them before. That is what I appreciate about reading people's advice who have been through those adjustment phases. I try to share with my husband the problems others have had so we can discuss them and know each other's expectations. I'm hoping this prepares us better for when he is here.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Most middle eastern men are aloof - out of the hundreds I know in my life and from hearing stories of my aunts family....thats exactly how all of them are. Generally not bad, but not the connecting with wife and being a soft shoulder type.

Tina you have to forget about the warmness you want and focus more on getting him intot he shape you need him to be in. I don't think he will change, my mother tried more than 2 decades and still no luck. I told her to focus on herself from now on. You do the same. If he gives extra support, good - if not, then you got yourself to fall back on. This visa journey is miserable enough, he should understand your pain but i find few husbands do.

see if you guys can get more activites together and i think he just isnt understanding the reality of it all - the more he loves you, the more you would love him back and there would be harmony

he may not understand it today or tomorrow but maybe in a few years when he gets the hang of life here

sending you my love, your friend

tam

I think it depends on the man and the situation and whatever life hands you at the moment. When I am doing ok with my husband, he has sex with me every day sometimes 2 times. When things are bad, he can go days without even talking to me. I dont think mena men are aloof. I think they are when they dont want to be with you anymore or are pissed at you. When A MENA man is in love with you, aloof is the FARTHEST thing from their minds. I have had real love before I met my husband with an arab and it was real love and he wasnt aloof. My husband when he isnt phasing in and out of his MULTIPLE personalities can be very passionate, interested, animated and yes romantic. One of my friends on MENA thinks he is narcissistic and frankly I have to agree.

Its not normal not to be touched held and talked to by a mena man. If they love you, they talk to you. They have sex with you. They hold you.. They want to be with you. You can psychoanalyse this junk all day long.. but men are men are men are men. If they are touching you, talking to you and paying attention to you, they want to be with you. If they are doing other things they are either not interested any more in you or cheating or pissed. I think its unfair to the woman to question herself when frankly it is HIS DEAL. I think she either needs to tell him HEY I AM PISSED or just get lost for a while until he misses her. I dont buy this whole aloof #######. Men pay attention when they are in love. They dont ignore...My husband did so many awful things that I am having a hard time even accepting the times when he isnt cause I am so resentful and mad at him from everything. That carries over. Its hard to start fresh when you are pissed off

[S and S 12]

Most middle eastern men are aloof - out of the hundreds I know in my life and from hearing stories of my aunts family....thats exactly how all of them are. Generally not bad, but not the connecting with wife and being a soft shoulder type.

Tina you have to forget about the warmness you want and focus more on getting him intot he shape you need him to be in. I don't think he will change, my mother tried more than 2 decades and still no luck. I told her to focus on herself from now on. You do the same. If he gives extra support, good - if not, then you got yourself to fall back on. This visa journey is miserable enough, he should understand your pain but i find few husbands do.

see if you guys can get more activites together and i think he just isnt understanding the reality of it all - the more he loves you, the more you would love him back and there would be harmony

he may not understand it today or tomorrow but maybe in a few years when he gets the hang of life here

sending you my love, your friend

tam

I think it depends on the man and the situation and whatever life hands you at the moment. When I am doing ok with my husband, he has sex with me every day sometimes 2 times. When things are bad, he can go days without even talking to me. I dont think mena men are aloof. I think they are when they dont want to be with you anymore or are pissed at you. When A MENA man is in love with you, aloof is the FARTHEST thing from their minds. I have had real love before I met my husband with an arab and it was real love and he wasnt aloof. My husband when he isnt phasing in and out of his MULTIPLE personalities can be very passionate, interested, animated and yes romantic. One of my friends on MENA thinks he is narcissistic and frankly I have to agree.

Its not normal not to be touched held and talked to by a mena man. If they love you, they talk to you. They have sex with you. They hold you.. They want to be with you. You can psychoanalyse this junk all day long.. but men are men are men are men. If they are touching you, talking to you and paying attention to you, they want to be with you. If they are doing other things they are either not interested any more in you or cheating or pissed. I think its unfair to the woman to question herself when frankly it is HIS DEAL. I think she either needs to tell him HEY I AM PISSED or just get lost for a while until he misses her. I dont buy this whole aloof #######. Men pay attention when they are in love. They dont ignore...My husband did so many awful things that I am having a hard time even accepting the times when he isnt cause I am so resentful and mad at him from everything. That carries over. Its hard to start fresh when you are pissed off

Every man is different. Some just don't show as much affection. My ex-fil would not even drink after his wife and never showed any kind of affection to her where we could see. I got the impression there wasn't much cuddling alone either, but he loved his wife very much and had been married to her for nearly 30 years at that point. He just had a different way of showing how he cared. It was weird to me, but it was obvious that his wife was his only love.

[AlHayatZween 2]

ahmed has said you are not same person you were here, (hes not here) but senses it, well no im not> there i had no everyday problems hanging over my head.

Yes, we've had this conversation, too. And it's true... i'm not the same person i was two years ago. In Morocco, i was having so much fun and making a great salary and everything was great. This past year of moving from one continent to another, immigration, finding and settling in a job i'm not too happy with... it has really taken a toll on my energy and optimism. i feel like i've aged 10 years. But we talk about it, and it's hard, and we are hopeful that we will both get back to our "regular" selves (albeit with more gray hair) when we finally get something settled! Inchallah... inchallah...

Nutty, you know what's best for you. Good luck to you, and if you have the opportunity to travel and go someplace you love, then do it... i hope for only the best for you.

~ hz

[sereia 0]

Yes, we've had this conversation, too. And it's true... i'm not the same person i was two years ago. In Morocco, i was having so much fun and making a great salary and everything was great. This past year of moving from one continent to another, immigration, finding and settling in a job i'm not too happy with... it has really taken a toll on my energy and optimism. i feel like i've aged 10 years. But we talk about it, and it's hard, and we are hopeful that we will both get back to our "regular" selves (albeit with more gray hair) when we finally get something settled! Inchallah... inchallah...

Nutty, you know what's best for you. Good luck to you, and if you have the opportunity to travel and go someplace you love, then do it... i hope for only the best for you.

~ hz

Wow you described me EXACTLY with this comment! I feel like I'm definitely different from who I was before I met my husband. My friends have said so and I know my husband notices a difference too (not that I don't notice a huge difference in him either...)I was living in NYC with a lot of great things going on (great job, friends, fun), only had to worry about myself, no family pressures, baby pressures, immigration, etc. Hopefully we can both get back to our old selves soon. Its definitely an uphill battle though!

P.S. My husband is the complete opposite of aloof. If I'm not giving him 100% of my attention cuddling, talking, opening up my heart, he definitely doesn't like it!

[AlHayatZween 2]

Wow you described me EXACTLY with this comment! I feel like I'm definitely different from who I was before I met my husband. My friends have said so and I know my husband notices a difference too (not that I don't notice a huge difference in him either...)I was living in NYC with a lot of great things going on (great job, friends, fun), only had to worry about myself, no family pressures, baby pressures, immigration, etc. Hopefully we can both get back to our old selves soon. Its definitely an uphill battle though!

i'm not sure, but this whole past year, i've been telling myself that my wackiness and mood swings and frustrations with life (and immigration) are only temporary... i feel like i've just walked through a year of darkness, and now my eyes hurt in the sunshine... i think it will get better (emotionally, physically, financially). i'm trying to make short-term goals for myself while slowly, but surely helping Habibi to be more independent.

[Nutty 2]

UPDATE I have a game plan.

I will give the next two months until after the holidays, to see if things will change between us. I will be positive, natural, not stressed, self. (Something which has become easier since I threatened to quit my job last week and the president has told the supervisors to spread the busy work to other staff instead of dumping it all on me.) I will be cordial and friendly to my husband.

If he continues with his aloofness and lack of attention, then after the holidays I will give notice on my apartment and find a room to rent somewhere. Work for another 6 months here (gain some additional bankruptcy paralegal experience), which will be marketable later on.

I will also serve my huband with seperation papers.

One thing I am considering is my husband may actually be depressed. Or his high blood pressure is affecting him (however, he refuses to take high blood pressure medicine). So if I maintain a "cheerful" disposition and he doesn't snap out of it, well, then I gotta go.

I an unsure if my husband loves or not. I am beginning to wonder if he even knows what "real love" is. But over the next two months he has his chance to show he loves me. We have had the dicussion of, "western love" being more demonstrative versus Iranian love (where the woman does not need words/expressions of affection). Somehow I don't believe his line about Iranian women not needing their husbands to be affectionate towards them. However, even if it's true. He married me, an American, knowing my temperment. He expects me to do all the adjusting to his character while making no adjustments for mine. It doesn't work that way. We both got to change.

(He asked me if I wanted to go walking with him on Saturday. I asked, "Will you talk with me?" His reply, "I don't know. It is not in my character." Then I said, "Fine then go alone, I get enough of your silence at home.")

Most middle eastern men are aloof - out of the hundreds I know in my life and from hearing stories of my aunts family....thats exactly how all of them are. Generally not bad, but not the connecting with wife and being a soft shoulder type.

Tina you have to forget about the warmness you want and focus more on getting him intot he shape you need him to be in. I don't think he will change, my mother tried more than 2 decades and still no luck. I told her to focus on herself from now on. You do the same. If he gives extra support, good - if not, then you got yourself to fall back on. This visa journey is miserable enough, he should understand your pain but i find few husbands do.

see if you guys can get more activites together and i think he just isnt understanding the reality of it all - the more he loves you, the more you would love him back and there would be harmony

he may not understand it today or tomorrow but maybe in a few years when he gets the hang of life here

sending you my love, your friend

tam