Presidential Debate

[Corey-Mariya 14]

How is everyone? Have not been on in awhile! I watched the presidential debate last night and some of the questions from the moderator made mariya angry They had questions for the canidates if they thought russia was now an evil empire! I laughed because I thought it was funny but Mariya was mad. They had a few other questions about Russia such as the Georgia situation ect... I still do not understand why so many people have bad views about russia? I remember George bush and John Mcain condeming Russia for driving tanks into a different country? What did we do in Iraq? Why does George W. Bush and the Usa think they are responsible for what happens everywhere esle in the world and trying to be like police? Anyway I am definitely voting Obama in the fall! Did anyone else what the debate last night?

[nowhereman 1]

How is everyone? Have not been on in awhile! I watched the presidential debate last night and some of the questions from the moderator made mariya angry They had questions for the canidates if they thought russia was now an evil empire! I laughed because I thought it was funny but Mariya was mad. They had a few other questions about Russia such as the Georgia situation ect... I still do not understand why so many people have bad views about russia? I remember George bush and John Mcain condeming Russia for driving tanks into a different country? What did we do in Iraq? Why does George W. Bush and the Usa think they are responsible for what happens everywhere esle in the world and trying to be like police? Anyway I am definitely voting Obama in the fall! Did anyone else what the debate last night?

I hear ya man... my ex-wife is Chinese... remember when the Chinese detained one of our planes & it's crew? I think I slept on the couch that week, we didn't exactly agree on the topic

[Blues Fairy 0]

I remember George bush and John Mcain condeming Russia for driving tanks into a different country? What did we do in Iraq? Why does George W. Bush and the Usa think they are responsible for what happens everywhere esle in the world and trying to be like police?

Did the Georgian leader massively torture and kill his own people like Saddam did? How can you even compare what Russia's doing to what USA did in Iraq? That's another gross distortion that Obama's electorate is so easily succeptible to.

Plus, don't forget that Iraq war was approved by the Congress, whereas Putin is hardly accountable to anyone in his decisions.

Also, did you hear what Obama answered to the question about USA having moral responsibility to respond to "what happens everywhere esle in the world"? He says the same big words as McCain does, only McCain is actually capable of following through, while Obama will go and shake hands with every little Fuhrer who decides to wage a genocide against a neighbor country or his own people. Go, vote for him, sure, he's so big on keeping his promises.

[slim 1,514]

I hear ya man... my ex-wife is Chinese... remember when the Chinese detained one of our planes & it's crew? I think I slept on the couch that week, we didn't exactly agree on the topic

Remember when we "accidentally" dropped a laser-guided bomb on the Chinese embassy in Kosovo?

If there's one thing that will annoy an Asian, any Asian, it's a b!tch-slap to their honor. We're lucky we got off so lightly during that incident.

I believe we're one up on them now after introducing China as the "Republic of China" during President Hu, Jin-Tao's visit to the White House. Wonder what will come of that one....

Did the Georgian leader massively torture and kill his own people like Saddam did?

We didn't invade Iraq to help the Iraqi people. Well, not initially, anyway.

How can you even compare what Russia's doing to what USA did in Iraq? That's another gross distortion that Obama's electorate is so easily succeptible to.

Unilateral invasion of a sovereign country is pretty much what USA did in Iraq... isn't that pretty much what Russia did in Georgia as well? I don't see how that's a gross distortion of anything by Obama's electorate or otherwise.

Plus, don't forget that Iraq war was approved by the Congress, whereas Putin is hardly accountable to anyone in his decisions.

OK. First of all, Congress may have approved the Iraq war but the U.N. didn't. That means Bush wasn't held accountable by anyone.

Secondly, Putin is the Prime Minister... isn't he accountable to the President?

If you wanna say what Bush did was legal because his Congress supported it then you have to say "what Putin did" was legal because his President supported him. (What did he do, by the way? He's only the PM. Where's the President in all of this?)

Also, did you hear what Obama answered to the question about USA having moral responsibility to respond to "what happens everywhere esle in the world"? He says the same big words as McCain does, only McCain is actually capable of following through, while Obama will go and shake hands with every little Fuhrer who decides to wage a genocide against a neighbor country or his own people. Go, vote for him, sure, he's so big on keeping his promises.

If you're voting for any politician, American or Russian, because they keep their promises or because they're so concerned about "what happens everywhere else in the world" you're going to be sadly disappointed. I think you'll find, across the board and across the world, politicians tend to be concerned about very few things, and among them, keeping promises and caring about the world are very low on the priority list.

[Corey-Mariya 14]

I remember George bush and John Mcain condeming Russia for driving tanks into a different country? What did we do in Iraq? Why does George W. Bush and the Usa think they are responsible for what happens everywhere esle in the world and trying to be like police?

Did the Georgian leader massively torture and kill his own people like Saddam did? How can you even compare what Russia's doing to what USA did in Iraq? That's another gross distortion that Obama's electorate is so easily succeptible to.

Plus, don't forget that Iraq war was approved by the Congress, whereas Putin is hardly accountable to anyone in his decisions.

Also, did you hear what Obama answered to the question about USA having moral responsibility to respond to "what happens everywhere esle in the world"? He says the same big words as McCain does, only McCain is actually capable of following through, while Obama will go and shake hands with every little Fuhrer who decides to wage a genocide against a neighbor country or his own people. Go, vote for him, sure, he's so big on keeping his promises.

The Georgian President killed 2000 innocent russians mostly women and children that were russian. (they had passports ect.) That is called ethnic cleansing! This is what Georgia did! Russia responded! Sadam was hung for those cimes. When Russia invaded Georgia this was on russian news the georgian leader tried to commit suicide. His advisors stopped him! he is a radicalist. We wanted to go to Iraq before 9/11! The main reason oil! How do you justify that? They used 9/11 and the term terrrorist to scare people here saying we had to do it! People inside the bush administration have admitted this! So I see two similarites! In my opinion and its my opinion I thnk Russia was alot more justified invading Georgia then we were Iraq!

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

I will add that not only does all this anger my Alla, deeply, it also concerns her tremendously. She truly considers her children will be stoned in the playground my Russian hating children. Crazy? Yes, of course, but its sad.

[mox 298]

So I see two similarites! In my opinion and its my opinion I thnk Russia was alot more justified invading Georgia then we were Iraq!

Let's not forget that Georgia was the aggressor first. The fact Russia had "peacekeepers" inside Georgian political boundaries holds little water in terms of justification, because Russia have had these troops there for years. Any time you are dealing with a status quo situation, gunfire is the last resort, not the first. Georgia handled this situation poorly, and there's evidence to suggest they did it with the tacit support of Washington.

Having said that, I agree that Russia was particularly heavy-handed, and shares some blame. But let's be honest. If the Mexican army were to invade some tiny enclave of Texas, you can pretty much bet that the US would respond overwhelmingly, and would not stop until we got to Mexico City. The US calling Russia heavy-handed is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Blues Fairy 0]

Corey, there was never any evidence of Russian genocide in S. Ossettia, no bodies were found. You think the Georgians would conceal the evidence of a genocide if they had any?

On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence of Russia amassing its troops along the Georgian border long before the start of the affair. And Saakashvili, being a hot-headed fool that he is, is still NOT Saddam Hussein.

Slim,

UN is a bunch of wusses that is largely useless nowadays as terrorist-supporting countries have as much representation there as the rest of the civilized world.

I am not voting for any politician yet, because I'm not citizen , but Obama's intention to negotiate with Ahmadinejad is something surreal to me. And Russia, selling arms to Venezuela and Iran while pretending to be part of a civilized world, is equally surreal.

[nowhereman 1]

Corey, there was never any evidence of Russian genocide in S. Ossettia, no bodies were found. You think the Georgians would conceal the evidence of a genocide if they had any?

On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence of Russia amassing its troops along the Georgian border long before the start of the affair. And Saakashvili, being a hot-headed fool that he is, is still NOT Saddam Hussein.

Slim,

UN is a bunch of wusses that is largely useless nowadays as terrorist-supporting countries have as much representation there as the rest of the civilized world.

I am not voting for any politician yet, because I'm not citizen , but Obama's intention to negotiate with Ahmadinejad is something surreal to me. And Russia, selling arms to Venezuela and Iran while pretending to be part of a civilized world, is equally surreal.

Blue I respect your opinions but I disagree with some of what you said. Are you familiar with the Bush doctrine? If not google it & take a look. By almost any objective measure it has been a failure & McCain will essentially continue it. Obama isn't suggesting that he will sit down with Iran & have some tea... this is just a twisting of facts by the McCain campaign. Many former (and respected) officials, to include some Republicans, agree that we should have diplomatic talks with countries such as Iran. It's all part of the "DIME" approach (diplomacy, information, military, economics).

[mendeleev 68]

If Serbs had attacked US peacekeepers in Bosnia and killed even one, it wouldn't have been an airwar against Belgrade. The USA would have occupied it, of that we can be sure.

From that perspective, the Russians even look a bit restrained: they didn't conquer all of Georgia.

[slim 1,514]

a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

What do you mean, "you people?" ....... What do you mean, "you people?" (If you haven't seen Tropic Thunder, you gotta watch it. Funny. Funny. Funny. "I'm a lead farmer motherf$#er!")

UN is a bunch of wusses that is largely useless nowadays

100% agree with you there, but they still are the "people to see about that sort of thing." If you want to go invading a sovereign state, you're supposed to get the thumbs up from the Security Council first. Now that the U.S. has set the standard of "invade whomever you wish... provided they scare you" it's pretty much a free-for-all on the BBC or Fox News as to "why we did it and why the UN can't say anything about it."

as terrorist-supporting countries have as much representation there as the rest of the civilized world.

And why shouldn't they? They're still sovereign nations. So what if one country thinks they support terrorists? Maybe they think the country saying they support terrorists actually supports terrorists themselves. Maybe they even think that country detains people in secret camps and tortures them in violation of international law. Who's to say who's right or wrong without a UN made up of member-states EQUALLY represented?

And what makes one country civilized and another not? Is it because their defense budget cannot support spending 20 million dollars to fly an unmanned aircraft and then drop a million dollar gps-guided bomb onto a car to kill someone they think is a terror suspect? Becuase, due to budget constraints, they're limited to doing it the old fashioned way and strapping a bomb onto a person? That's the measure of civilization?

I think if you dig a little deeper you'll see the same result is achieved, it's just done in more "CNN-friendly" manner. Do you think Al-Jazeera reports a "successful anti-terror campaign" when a Range Rover in the middle of Yemen blows up after being struck by a U.S. missile? Or, do you think maybe they report it as an "act of terror by the uncivilized infidels of the West?"

I am not voting for any politician yet, because I'm not citizen ,

And I'm still not voting for any politician yet becuase they do not represent the citizen.

but Obama's intention to negotiate with Ahmadinejad is something surreal to me.

Yeah, better to just keep pumping money and troops into Iraq and ignoring what the "Axis of Evil" has to say.

And Russia, selling arms to Venezuela and Iran while pretending to be part of a civilized world, is equally surreal.

Almost as surreal as the U.S. selling arms to Afghanistan and Pakistan during the Soviet occupation.... or to the Georgians before the Russian invasion.

Civilization. HA!

[Blues Fairy 0]

And why shouldn't they? They're still sovereign nations. So what if one country thinks they support terrorists? Maybe they think the country saying they support terrorists actually supports terrorists themselves. Maybe they even think that country detains people in secret camps and tortures them in violation of international law. Who's to say who's right or wrong without a UN made up of member-states EQUALLY represented?

And what makes one country civilized and another not? Is it because their defense budget cannot support spending 20 million dollars to fly an unmanned aircraft and then drop a million dollar gps-guided bomb onto a car to kill someone they think is a terror suspect? Becuase, due to budget constraints, they're limited to doing it the old fashioned way and strapping a bomb onto a person? That's the measure of civilization?

Yeah, better to just keep pumping money and troops into Iraq and ignoring what the "Axis of Evil" has to say.

What a bunch of baloney.

One measure of civilization is when physical annihilation of the "enemy" is not proclaimed as a national ideology, and when those who do so are not being granted the same rights as the other countries/citizens. What terrorists think and say about their enemies and whether mistreating them actually hurts their feelings, IS NOT RELEVANT to any sensible person except extreme liberals like you.

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

Wow you forget to check in once in awhile and things go catwhumpus!!!

The truth is there will never be a justification for either act. Perhaps Russia did go a little strong but as I described it to my friends at work who really have no understanding, if Cuba started lobbing mortars into Puerto Rico, we would have marched all the way from the Bay of Pigs to downtown Havana. Most of the areas like S Ossetia declared themselves independent when the Soviet Union fell apart, noone seemed to recognize them and their rights to govern themselves. Then Georgia starts making waves or some S Ossetian didnt pay a parking ticket and all hell breaks loose. Well shame on Georgia for mortaring another country and shame on Russia for not stopping at the Georgia border and securing S Ossetia.

As for Iraq, remember this all started with the US running around in Afghanistan looking for Bin Laden, we never found him(at least that is what they are telling us now) Bush and especially Cheney got frustrated and couldnt figure out why it was taking so long. So they set their eyes on a target that wasnt going anywhere, formulated a plan got it approved and went after Hussein, who by no means is innocent as far as being a bad guy. We went after Iraq thought it would only delay things in Afghanistan a week or two and then discovered that you cant take 3 ethnically diverse people(Shiites, Sunis and the Kurds) cram them all together and think they are going to play nice. We should have learned from vietnam that the best way to unite a split society is to give them a common enemy. How long do you think it will take once we pull out, in eighteen months or 100 years, before things will completely fall apart again?

The US needs to work on its domestic issues first, help out when we are called upon, work with our allies, negotiate with our enemies for peace, Iran is a danger that is for sure but not just a danger to us, better to talk to them first, figure out their intentions and deal with them as a global partner rather than a cowboy in town for a good weekend.

That is the last I will say on this whole thing. Well maybe not.

Anyone see what the lead singer of Def Lepard did to the most hallowed trophy(the Stanley Cup)? Now that is a crime.

[mox 298]

What terrorists think and say about their enemies and whether mistreating them actually hurts their feelings, IS NOT RELEVANT to any sensible person except extreme liberals like you.

Heh...I've heard Slim called a lot of things (some of which I've called him myself ) but "extreme liberal" has never been one of them. Welcome to the granola club my friend.

Blues, this is an unfair simplification. How we treat our enemies says a lot about us as a civilization and as a people. We "extreme liberals" don't oppose the brutal torture of terrorists (especially "terrorists" who haven't even been charged) because we think it hurts their feelings, but because it hurts us as a society by tearing down the rule of law that this country has held sacred for the last 232 years. We believe in the rule of law, and we believe it should be applied to every person no matter how abhorrent we believe their crimes may be. The rule of law applies equally to child molesters and jay walkers, serial killers and jay walkers. Once we decide that terrorists are somehow special and therefore have no rights, we start to erode our own freedoms. Even the Oklahoma City bombers, American's homegrown terrorists, were incarcerated without being tortured, and given due process.

Disagree with this position if you want, but to say that "liberals" don't want terrorists mistreated because it "hurts their feelings" is intellectually dishonest.

[Fedup 0]

And why shouldn't they? They're still sovereign nations. So what if one country thinks they support terrorists? Maybe they think the country saying they support terrorists actually supports terrorists themselves. Maybe they even think that country detains people in secret camps and tortures them in violation of international law. Who's to say who's right or wrong without a UN made up of member-states EQUALLY represented?

And what makes one country civilized and another not? Is it because their defense budget cannot support spending 20 million dollars to fly an unmanned aircraft and then drop a million dollar gps-guided bomb onto a car to kill someone they think is a terror suspect? Becuase, due to budget constraints, they're limited to doing it the old fashioned way and strapping a bomb onto a person? That's the measure of civilization?

Yeah, better to just keep pumping money and troops into Iraq and ignoring what the "Axis of Evil" has to say.

What a bunch of baloney.

One measure of civilization is when physical annihilation of the "enemy" is not proclaimed as a national ideology, and when those who do so are not being granted the same rights as the other countries/citizens. What terrorists think and say about their enemies and whether mistreating them actually hurts their feelings, IS NOT RELEVANT to any sensible person except extreme liberals like you.

you do sound a bit insane.

but it becomes more and more common among certain part of US population.