Why Leave Canada?

[fresnel 0]

While I was waiting at the Montreal Consulate for my K1 interview, I looked around the room and thought "geez, most folks here don't look like they've been in Canada all that long. Canada can be a tough place to live in... Winter, nanny state government, taxes but all and all not a too bad place to live. Curious, as to why people want to take the next step with citizenship beyond simply living in the US as a Canadian.

Truth is, after this consulate experience and the fact that I'd have to take a leave of absence from work to get my citizenship (I understand I have to "stick around" waiting on AP, biometrics etc), I question if I should do it now, at least in the short term. Background, I'm a commercial pilot, 45, 5 more years till I call it a career and I do need to leave the country for a few days a month - no way around it with my work. Further to that, I have elderly (not so healthy) parents in Canada. My American fiance is lukewarm about Canada but I own a beach house in Topsail, NC (she's from SC so she can get her Southern fix so to speak).

If anyone has a way I can get around all of this (issue of not being able to cross the border) I'd like to hear about it. Is crossing the border going to be a hassle till the K1 authorization expires?

I am curious why people want to leave - especially recent Canadian's (citizens not by birth)

[Kathryn41 3,205]

If being able to leave the US after crossing is important to you, you may wish to re-think your plans of using the K-1 and consider getting married then applying for a K-3 or the CR-1 directly, which allows cross border travel. You will definitely be restricted from leaving the US AND returning once you activate a K-1 until after you have filed for AOS/EAD/AP AND received the AP - generally a 3 to 4 months wait after crossing the border (and allowing time to get married and submit the necessary applications).

Why do people want to leave? I don't think in my case it is accurate to say I wanted to leave. I love Canada and I love being a Canadian. For us, it was a pragmatic approach: his job was more secure than mine and also brought in nearly 3 times as much money; he owned a house and I rented; he has just a few more years until he is retirement age and he might as well get his full US Social Security/pension eligibility. I moved because it was more practical for me to join my husband in the US rather than my husband to join me in Canada.

Why will I be seeking citizenship rather than just remaining a Canadian with PR status in the US? Because having to deal with USCIS is a nightmare; our options are restricted; our lives are on hold waiting for a government agency to give us permission to live together permanently. I dislike living with the feeling that one inadvertent wrong move on my part or an error of gross negligence on their part (not an unreasonable fear) and the government will separate us. Citizenship will ensure that we will be able to live and travel freely without having to answer to Big Brother about how we live our lives - nor live in the fear that new legislation will take away our right to be together as we get caught up in some sort of a red-tape nightmare of incompetence. I also believe that it if you live in a community it is important to participate in that community - and I want the right to vote for the type of individual I believe will provide good representation in government. A non-citizen has no voice - and increasingly, fewer and fewer rights. So, it is not a matter of 'want' but a matter of practicality.

You do realize that citizenship isn't something that happens quickly? It sounds from your post that you expect to get your US citizenship when you enter the States. The process is that you get permission to enter the States to marry and adjust status, you marry, apply to adjust status; are approved for a Greencard; 2 years later apply to remove conditions on the greencard and the year after that - 3 years as a permanent resident - you are allowed to apply for citizenship. We have been 5 years on this journey already and I am still not eligible to apply for citizenship until the end of next February.

Edited August 8, 2008 by Kathryn41

[fresnel 0]

Why will I be seeking citizenship rather than just remaining a Canadian with PR status in the US? Because having to deal with USCIS is a nightmare; our options are restricted; our lives are on hold waiting for a government agency to give us permission to live together permanently. I dislike living with the feeling that one inadvertent wrong move on my part or an error of gross negligence on their part (not an unreasonable fear) and the government will separate us. Citizenship will ensure that we will be able to live and travel freely without having to answer to Big Brother about how we live our lives - nor live in the fear that new legislation will take away our right to be together as we get caught up in some sort of a red-tape nightmare of incompetence. I also believe that it if you live in a community it is important to participate in that community - and I want the right to vote for the type of individual I believe will provide good representation in government. A non-citizen has no voice - and increasingly, fewer and fewer rights. So, it is not a matter of 'want' but a matter of practicality.

I enjoyed reading your post and thought the above was very well said.

Addressing your point about timelines I do understand it takes forever then some. For myself, I think its more frustration rather than naivety of the process: I attended a US college, I work for a US company, I have real property in the US. Perhaps its a bit of an entitlement mentality but I believe I shouldn't have to jump through all these hoops because I have a "history" there. Further, I dread the idea of having my movements (read: travel) restricted.

Yes, if you want to play you must pay and perhaps I should pursue the CR1 as you suggested.

Thank you for that suggestion by the way!

[antda 13]

Hi Fresnel,

I am curious why people want to leave - especially recent Canadian's (citizens not by birth)

Likewise, I agree and feel the same way with what Kathryn said so perfectly:

I moved because it was more practical for me to join my husband in the US rather than my husband to join me in Canada.

Why will I be seeking citizenship rather than just remaining a Canadian with PR status in the US? Because having to deal with USCIS is a nightmare; our options are restricted; our lives are on hold waiting for a government agency to give us permission to live together permanently. I dislike living with the feeling that one inadvertent wrong move on my part or an error of gross negligence on their part (not an unreasonable fear) and the government will separate us. Citizenship will ensure that we will be able to live and travel freely without having to answer to Big Brother about how we live our lives - nor live in the fear that new legislation will take away our right to be together as we get caught up in some sort of a red-tape nightmare of incompetence. I also believe that it if you live in a community it is important to participate in that community - and I want the right to vote for the type of individual I believe will provide good representation in government. A non-citizen has no voice - and increasingly, fewer and fewer rights. So, it is not a matter of 'want' but a matter of practicality.

Ant

Edited August 9, 2008 by AntandD

[antda 13]

Hi Fresnel,

By the way, I wasn't a recent Canadian citizen, but I wasn't a Canadian citizen by birth either (not by choice, I was a naturalized Canadian citizen in childhood instead, and have lived most of my life in Canada). And from experience, I have also firsthand seen from others and experienced myself what you described seeing Canadian immigrants as:

"geez, most folks here don't look like they've been in Canada all that long. Canada can be a tough place to live in... Winter, nanny state government, taxes but all and all not a too bad place to live."

Yes, Canada can be a tough place to live in, but compared to other (sometimes third-world like in nature) countries these immigrants were living in before, Canada seems like a better place to live for them to live in instead.

As for the living in US being better than living Canada, that's another story....

Ant (Loves living in the USA, though am both Canadian and American at heart)

Edited August 9, 2008 by AntandD

[NickD 202]

Personally, (USC), I would choose Vancouver with a mild climate and beautiful mountain backgrounds over hurricane prone NC. Forget about Thunder Bay, that place redefined the word COLD!

But this is something you and your wife have to work out, and my advice in that respect to you is zero. LOL, 50 is way too young to retire, and Vancouver is always looking for bush pilots. Now that is real flying, none of that regimented stuff that probably has you brainwashed by now.

Wife and I have properties in central WI, Venezuela, and Colombia, but she likes it here, afraid that somebody will kidnap me for five bucks, that is all I am worth in Colombia, and Chavez sucks, whatever that means, daughter always uses that word. Most important thing to us, is that we are together. But we both would like to live on Lake Michigan so looking into that.

Work it out, then come back for some good or bad advice on dealing with immigration.

[Gulskjegg 0]

Im with Nick. Vancouver, to me, seems to have more humanity then any American city.

I look at all nations by the numbers. This isnt always perfect, case in point being the Czech Republic that looks great on paper but in reality is a hell hole. American falls in that category as well. The reality does not match the brochure.

Lets compare Canada with America. The number one factor I consider is how pervasive is the police state. America has the worlds highest prison population rate at 738 per 100,000. Canada has a prisoner rate of 107 per 100,000. So, whats that, a 700% difference between America and Canada?

Second, economy, Alberta is ranked at the second highest per capita income next to Luxembourg. That is pretty impressive. Even more so when you look at the America economy in freefall with massive unemployment, home foreclosures, bank collapses, etc etc.

Then you look at future problems such as the "Reconquista" of the American southwest by aggressive Mexican drug gangs and illegals. Or the growing amounts of racial tensions, such as what we saw during Hurricane Katrina. I don't see much of that stuff in Canada.

To me, life in America basically boils down to swimming in a sea of steroid addled, bug eyed cops running around in a feeding frenzy, wanting nothing more then you beat you, lock you up, plant drugs on you and steal your property. Or, as my wife and I counted a whopping 5 police cars when we drove from Montreal to Calgary...but here in podunk Montana I pass 5 cops on my way to the quicky-mart.

In my opinion, anyone that would turn aside the thriving economy and cohesive society of Canada in favor of the warmongering fascist dictatorship that is America needs a reality check.

[NickD 202]

Ha, can't say that about Quebec, a weird bunch of people, while my great grandmother from Poland was laid by a French aristocrat and my granddad from northern Italy was French speaking at the time, did get stuck with some French blood and a French last name. Was very much welcomed into Quebec until I opened my big fat English speaking mouth.

Should contact some of my old buddies that married gals from Canada, this would be back in the 80's, swore they just got married and brought their brides here without even a word about immigration. My dentist parents did the same thing, but today he said his parent were going crazy with immigration. Then we had thousands of our young men running up to Canada to avoid Viet Nam, but they were later offered amnesty to come back.

For me, going to Canada was no different than any other USA state or city, but all that is changing now without any given reason. Is there a reason that I don't know about?

They did double the size of our police force here as well as practically every other dinky little town in the USA to protect us against terrorists. But make sure you don't have a burnt out tail light before leaving your home. And 25 means 25!! Not 26.

[fresnel 0]

I didn't mean to prompt a debate on the comparative merits of living in the two countries but more to addressing the more personal rational of living outside of Canada.

I respect both nations and the quality of life issues can be argued till the end of time, however I think that both offer "comfort" far beyond any other nations. I did find it a bit disturbing that folks that didn't appear to have lived in Canada all that long were trying to leave for the US... perhaps I'm being too nationalistic but geesh Canada has to be a whole lot better than where they came from, why not be grateful.

As for myself and retiring at 50.... I've been planning a career change for many years (want to be a discretionary account manager) for high yield individuals. Bush pilot?.... living in the sticks flying ancient aircraft for a quarter of what I'm earning now has no appeal - too much the prima donna.

[Gulskjegg 0]

As a Canadian, of course you don't want "debate". If there is one thing I have learned about Canadians, its that a strong opinion about anything is considered bad form. You must believe what everyone else believes...or else! I cant be certain, but I suspect Canadians tend to be less "Pro-Canada" then "Anti-America". I think it has something to do with so many Loyalists being deported to Canada after the American war for independence.

Anyhow Nick, as to why Canada suddenly seems unwelcoming. America learned its lessons from Viet Nam. Plus, with have two other points working against us. The so-called "war on terror" and the North American Union. It all coalesces into the "Smart Borders Declaration". This declaration forces the Canadian Border Service to inform the American gov't if any "draft dodgers" attempt to flee into Canada. Plus, the massive flow of goods from the south is covered over in the perception that Canada has a strong border. Basically, drugs, illegal immigrants, and junk from China can move north, but YOU cant.

http://www.ambassadeducanada.org/border/declaration-en.asp <-- Smart Border Declaration

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/...tradition.shtml <-- OpEd on SBD and how it effects us

[NickD 202]

All goes back to 9/11 then? FBI knew about the terrorists, told the CIA, but nothing came of that. A country that banned asbestos, yeah, my company had a major recall that almost bankrupted us, but it was sealed and protected. The WWII ship workers should have worn simple dust masks, but no asbestos was permitted to be use in the world trade centers, plus maximizing space wasn't a good idea either by using tiny angle brackets to hold up the floors.

Still questions about the ties between the Bin Laden and Bush families, did one of the Bush's leave Osama off his Christmas list? And why did they attack the trade centers for this, just like a nut that has problems at work, goes home and beats up his wife and kids instead of dealing with his problems at work. Somebody here teed off these terrorists, that was never made clear and the total number of them is less than 50 that lead us to becoming an imperialistic nation and attacking an innocent country costing us trillions. And that money ain't going to the troops, was a troop, we had all the gear with constant training wearing it out and burning gas, the only difference would get live ammunition instead of blanks and a few bucks more a month for combat pay, certainly not trillions of dollars worth.

For the FBI and CIA we get the DHS run by bush buddies that don't seem to know the difference between their butts and a hole in the ground, just read the questions on the forms, the previous forms were not nearly this bad. And our borders are being closed between Canada and the USA, but not much being done about Mexico with quite a shock that two of our border patrol agents have extremely long jail sentences for trying to protect themselves.

Who killed JFK? Only Johnson and Nixon has motives and led this country into one of the longest costliest wars in history, that still is a mystery, but has been downhill ever since. And can't really say something nice about an administration that has broken over 750 constitutional laws and looks like they are going to get away with it. Have control over the congress and the supreme court, where is the balance of power we have to learn about?

Maybe the immigrants are our hope to get this country back in line, Americans are too busy watching the superbowl and other stuff.

[MaxOnline 0]

http://www.notcanada.com/