The United States of America - my thoughts so far

[Big Papa Zone 93]

Me and my fiancee have had this discussion many many times.

I go through periods of complaining about the US and it's shortcomings and periods of excitement about the good points of the country. Whenever I'm in the mood for the former, it usually starts a little arguement as he defends it. He claims he's not patriotic though and that fuels the fire because that's the number one gripe.

What's wrong with being patriotic, exactly?

I complain about how much of an outsider *I* personally feel just going down the street when there are a million American flags waving in yards, outside stores, on bumper stickers... you'd never see that in the UK.

No you wouldn't - that's the problem!!!!!!

Hell, Boston ALONE has a sense of patriotism about it, and I lose count of the number of Red Sox shirts I see, even when outside of the city.

And this is a problem why, exactly? A city where 99% of the inhabitants root for the hometown team - how fabulously refreshing!! All plastic Man Utd "fans", take note!

He argues that when it comes to football games, they don't start international brawls over simply being American, like the British do.

True, but then again our football is far more tribal. And I wouldn't have it any other way, tbf.

I complain that I find the religious aspects quite tiring. I used to consider myself a Christian, though recently I've been distancing myself while I try to figure out exactly what I believe; there's not really any escaping it over there. I call it brainwashing; how hard must it be NOT to be religious in a country where God is involved in everything you do...

Completely agree - please see my signature!

I complain about the acceptance for obesity whilst poking fun at dental practice in the UK.

This is something I've never understood - the whole "Brits have rotten teeth" thing. Have you ever been to the U.S. boonies!!??? The townsfolk share a communal tooth!

[palilover 1]

Me and my fiancee have had this discussion many many times.

I go through periods of complaining about the US and it's shortcomings and periods of excitement about the good points of the country. Whenever I'm in the mood for the former, it usually starts a little arguement as he defends it. He claims he's not patriotic though and that fuels the fire because that's the number one gripe.

I complain about how much of an outsider *I* personally feel just going down the street when there are a million American flags waving in yards, outside stores, on bumper stickers... you'd never see that in the UK. Hell, Boston ALONE has a sense of patriotism about it, and I lose count of the number of Red Sox shirts I see, even when outside of the city. He argues that when it comes to football games, they don't start international brawls over simply being American, like the British do. I complain that I find the religious aspects quite tiring. I used to consider myself a Christian, though recently I've been distancing myself while I try to figure out exactly what I believe; there's not really any escaping it over there. I call it brainwashing; how hard must it be NOT to be religious in a country where God is involved in everything you do... there are countless churches and private Christian schools... he calls it no different than any British family that have strict religious beliefs. I agree to some extent, though it's never as obvious over here. I complain about the weather and how I sometimes find it difficult just to leave the house because it's so damn hot in the summer, and so freezing in the winter... though the first thing Americans often mention about the UK are the clouds/rain. I complain about the acceptance for obesity whilst poking fun at dental practice in the UK.

Having said that though, I read that going through periods of finding fault is a result of identity crisis; for example, Brits that go on holiday to the US often say that it was nice but they wouldn't like to live there. For people like us that are leaving everything behind to move to the US where everything is different, you worry that you'll lose your identity. Perhaps not your personality, but rather everything that is familiar. It's a natural way to try to hold on to everything that you know... to point out the flaws in everything you don't know. I try to find comfort in that... and the times where I'm in the US and start liking the country a little, it gives me some good faith that things aren't so bad.

Isnt otehr ethnic groups feeling like outsiders the reason they cant fly the St. George's flag publically in England?

Yep you're right about Boston. Boston has its own "patriotism" in the Red Sox:) You'll see more Red Sox banners than American flags here:) That does not bother me one bit though!

No need to lose your identity here though. Somone here can always appreciate you for what you are. But then again, for quite some time, I went through times of not being able to be who I was.....but I did not live in a big city though. I guess in the end, everyone can find out just how much their culture/country is a part of them mainly when they leave it all behind.

[Big Papa Zone 93]

Isnt otehr ethnic groups feeling like outsiders the reason they cant fly the St. George's flag publically in England?

OK, so shall we tell Americans they can't fly Old Glory in case certain ethnic groups object?

[palilover 1]

And this is a problem why, exactly? A city where 99% of the inhabitants root for the hometown team - how fabulously refreshing!! All plastic Man Utd "fans", take note!

HEY!!

his is something I've never understood - the whole "Brits have rotten teeth" thing. Have you ever been to the U.S. boonies!!??? The townsfolk share a communal tooth!

What is up with that anyways? Most brits I know have better teeth than mine:)

[Laura+Tom 2]

I think Austin Powers had a lot to do with it. In addition, I lost count hows many times I was asked 'have I seen Austin Powers?'

[palilover 1]

I think Austin Powers had a lot to do with it. In addition, I lost count hows many times I was asked 'have I seen Austin Powers?'

hehe I dont even think I've seen that movie:)) But then again, thats not saying much cuz it takes me several years to watch a movie that has just come out usually:)

[Gemmie 142]

Damian, it's not that there's something wrong with being proud of your nationality. I just find it way over the top... I consider NINE flags outside a simple gas station to be unnecessary if nothing else, like a constant reminder that "America is the BEST"... there is a difference between being proud of where you come from and being blindly patriotic, especially seeing the statistic that under 40% of Americans have passports. I know that not all Americans are that way, it's just the perception that people often get when they visit there; that patriotism is running wild, and the reason my fiancee and I find ourselves debating about it is because he doesn't even see it.

[SterlingGirl 1]

I consider NINE flags outside a simple gas station to be unnecessary if nothing else, like a constant reminder that "America is the BEST"

That's because they've never been elsewhere to make a comparison, hence:

under 40% of Americans have passports.

That figure includes me. It's not because I don't WANT to go anywhere else, it's because foreign travel has always been so expensive, and I've never been wealthy by any standards. If it's between having insurance and rent and a nice cushion for incidentals, and going to Iceland, I choose the former. And you couldn't PAY me to take public healthcare; my fiance has told me all about how wonderful the NHS is, further reinforcing my opinion that I'd rather dump a little more of my money into quality healthcare than to be shuffled through a system that's been re-engineered to herd people through like cattle. After all, what competition is going to scare them into providing the best service possible? But, that's a rant for later . . .

Back on topic, I'm not saying there aren't people like that, I just don't believe it's of as much urgency as some people would make it out to be. Most of those types are in no way dangerous - they're just indicative of a far worse trend than just blind patriotism, and that trend is that of people who want to be proud of something they didn't achieve. I love my country and I'd never want to live anywhere else, but I can't honestly say I'm "proud" to be an American, because being American isn't something I did. I'd rather be proud of my merits - intelligence, awards and honors I've won, things I've done, that kind of thing. Not just in America, but all over, it's becoming more and more common for people to want praise or a sense of pride over something that was really just an accident of birth. I consider it the same kind of stupid as "White Pride", or "Gay" vs "Straight" Pride. That's why there are so many problems with division in society in general - people want to be proud of the stupidest things.

It's not America itself that should really annoy anyone. Though, I DO wonder how many people would notice the same thing if any other country in the world were displaying the same level of patriotism.

[ginger1981 0]

Me and my fiancee have had this discussion many many times.

I go through periods of complaining about the US and it's shortcomings and periods of excitement about the good points of the country. Whenever I'm in the mood for the former, it usually starts a little arguement as he defends it. He claims he's not patriotic though and that fuels the fire because that's the number one gripe.

What's wrong with being patriotic, exactly?

I complain about how much of an outsider *I* personally feel just going down the street when there are a million American flags waving in yards, outside stores, on bumper stickers... you'd never see that in the UK.

No you wouldn't - that's the problem!!!!!!

Hell, Boston ALONE has a sense of patriotism about it, and I lose count of the number of Red Sox shirts I see, even when outside of the city.

And this is a problem why, exactly? A city where 99% of the inhabitants root for the hometown team - how fabulously refreshing!! All plastic Man Utd "fans", take note!

He argues that when it comes to football games, they don't start international brawls over simply being American, like the British do.

True, but then again our football is far more tribal. And I wouldn't have it any other way, tbf.

To be honest I've never really understood why Brits don't feel more pride in being...well a Brit! There are probably a lot more cultural subtleties at work here than I can understand, and I do understand why some people aren't happy with the whole colonial history thing. But jeez, look at what the British have accomplished! A small island nation that has relatively few resources found a way to become a world power! Some of the greatest literature in history has come from your nation...who has anything comparable to Shakespeare, for example? How about the Battle of Britain...one small nation making a stand against Nazi tyrrany?

No doubt the history of every nation has a darkside, but that doesn't mean you should be ashamed of who your people are...and especially your accomplishments.

On a side note...nothing wrong with being passionate about a sports team! But I don't see large scale destruction and rioting after games between, say the Huskers and the Sooners like there is with the Celtic and Rangers (for example).

Damian, it's not that there's something wrong with being proud of your nationality. I just find it way over the top... I consider NINE flags outside a simple gas station to be unnecessary if nothing else, like a constant reminder that "America is the BEST"... there is a difference between being proud of where you come from and being blindly patriotic, especially seeing the statistic that under 40% of Americans have passports. I know that not all Americans are that way, it's just the perception that people often get when they visit there; that patriotism is running wild, and the reason my fiancee and I find ourselves debating about it is because he doesn't even see it.

Let's understand something about the passport issue. America is a HUGE country....Europe can easily fit inside the continuous 48 states. The UK is a relatively small nation close to a conglomerate of small nations, and it is easy and inexpensive for you to hop on a Ryan Air flight and go to France, Italy etc and experience a different culture. It's not so easy...and very expensive to do so here. People like my parents grew up in a generation where it was expected once you get out of school you get married, get a job, buy a house and have kids. Lots of people seem to have it in their heads that all Americans are wealthy and have liquid cash to spend...which is absolutely not true. Most people have just enough to pay their bills, so travelling around Europe is just out of the question unless they are well off. Note that when Americans do travel international the most common destinations are Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean islands...places that are relatively near, and until the past year or so did not require Americans to have passports to travel to.

On another note...most people here, unless growing up in some seriously backwoods places, have had some sort of contact with different cultural traditions. Where I grew up in Nebraska, I lived in a town settled by Czechs...many of the storefronts were written in both Czech and English. Not far away was a community settled by Germans, Swedes, Danes, Irish...just about every European immigrant group was represented. In larger cities this happens on a larger scale.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is don't take the lack of passports/foreign travel as some sort of sign that Americans are closed minded and do not wish to interact with the outside world. I cannot tell you how many of my friends and family are envious of the fact that I have been able to travel outside the country...something that for various reasons they have been unable to fulfill.

[SterlingGirl 1]

Also, on the passport issue, most of England's population live in densely packed cities where not many people drive cars. My fiance uses his passport (which he didn't even have until he himself was about 23 years-old and coming to visit me) as his ID. Here, unless you live in New York, most people tend to have cars and, therefore, drivers' licenses. So as Ginger said, passports are just wholly unnecessary here as, while lower-to-mid middle class is certainly not in the dumps, it doesn't leave a whole lot of money for international travel. You'd be surprised how many people in the U.S. would LOVE to travel more, or learn foreign languages and try new things (god, sushi here is SUCH a fad food - lots of people here LOVE the sense of culture it gives them. If that weren't part of the appeal, we'd eat nothing but . . . well, there really IS no such thing as truly American food). Most of our chosen destinations, however, are simply too far away for us to afford unless we save for a very long time, or get lucky and win something.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Bear in mind with the passport thing it was only until very recently that you could travel to Mexico, Canada and most of the Carribbean without one. Besides, I hear such wildly varying statistics on how many people supposedly do or do not have passports and tend to not trust them too much.

[Laura+Tom 2]

To be honest I've never really understood why Brits don't feel more pride in being...well a Brit! There are probably a lot more cultural subtleties at work here than I can understand, and I do understand why some people aren't happy with the whole colonial history thing. But jeez, look at what the British have accomplished! A small island nation that has relatively few resources found a way to become a world power! Some of the greatest literature in history has come from your nation...who has anything comparable to Shakespeare, for example? How about the Battle of Britain...one small nation making a stand against Nazi tyrrany?

No doubt the history of every nation has a darkside, but that doesn't mean you should be ashamed of who your people are...and especially your accomplishments.

Because we don't get chance that's why. We get shot down when we fly the flag on St Georges day and there was talk of banning the singing of Jerusalem at matches, all because of fear of offending ethnic minorities. I hope this country pulls itself together for 2012.

[truffles 2]

The abundance of flags was one of the things i noticed on my first visit to US - I just thought they did it because they are afraid they will forget which country they live in !

[truffles 2]

By the way i was a little puzzled when I was watching the Olympics - why I dont recall any american athlete receiving a gold medal sing the national anthem, compounded with some not even having hand over heart - I hope when the Brits won they sang ! Being in the USA I wasnt able to see the Brits and medla ceremonies - the media here obviously covered the home athletes.

[Krikit 1,164]

Damian, it's not that there's something wrong with being proud of your nationality. I just find it way over the top... I consider NINE flags outside a simple gas station to be unnecessary if nothing else, like a constant reminder that "America is the BEST"... there is a difference between being proud of where you come from and being blindly patriotic, especially seeing the statistic that under 40% of Americans have passports. I know that not all Americans are that way, it's just the perception that people often get when they visit there; that patriotism is running wild, and the reason my fiancee and I find ourselves debating about it is because he doesn't even see it.

Where I live there is a GIANT flagpole with flag at the entrance to the subdivision, then an American flag on Every. Single. Lightpost. And if that's not enough, they're also on their houses. Yeah. OTT.

Let's understand something about the passport issue. America is a HUGE country....Europe can easily fit inside the continuous 48 states. The UK is a relatively small nation close to a conglomerate of small nations, and it is easy and inexpensive for you to hop on a Ryan Air flight and go to France, Italy etc and experience a different culture. It's not so easy...and very expensive to do so here.

While I don't know anything about the passport stats, I do know that the above argument doesn't really fly with me. Canada is much larger than the US, and the Canadians are much more well-travelled than their US neighbours. But I do get your point. I think part of the equation is that multi-culturalism is promoted in Canada, so its citizens love to travel and experience that. Here, not so much. I find the Americans don't really have that desire.... even out of their own State, much less out of the country. It just doesn't seem to appeal to them.