The United States of America - my thoughts so far

[ginger1981 0]

When I first heard the statistic about the number of Americans not possessing a passport I too was shocked but then thought about it and it kind of made sense. When you consider they can travel the 50 states, Canada, Mexico and a few other places I can't recall without any need for a passport why would the majority of the country even need one.

Then take into account the cost of travel to anywhere foreign from America requiring a passport, the average holiday entitlement and it then could surprise you the number who actually DO have a passport.

This is exactly what I mean - Americans dont realise that it's necessary to travel in order to experience other cultures !

They think that a drive from Minnesota to Milwaukee makes em citizens of the world !

I have been all over america and guess what - it's the SAME country. Apart from regional differences, it's not the big wide world - and taking 7 days to drive from seattle to florida is less eye opening that travelling 90 minutes from dover to calais !

Many americans, especially working class americans, only visit other countries when they are going there to kill people

Americans think it's expensive to travel because they are totally lost in the world and don't know how to travel cheaply.

They all go to london and pay 500 dollars a night for a hotel and 50 dollars for a meal, when they could be in a more beautiful region, in an economical band b and eating beautiful fish and chips for 5 dollars (with a cup of tea and a slice of bread and butter)

They dont know !

Sarah Palin, very possibly the next president, only just got a passport a short while ago ! She went to Kuwait via Germany and back pretty quickly

How can someone be president of the US if they have never been to the UK even ?????

This is blind ignorance of the highest order. How can the US be a power for good when ignorance is excused and even celebrated ?

An american girl came up to me in york and said she was going to norway the next day - then she asked me if norway was in the north of england like york.

From that moment on I realised the mountain of ignorance that I was up against

I'm going to defend the Americans again here on the passport issue. It is possible to travel cheaply, but most people are more comfortable taking the expensive tours...especially going to a place you've never been before. You grew up near to other foreign cultures...therefore they weren't so "foreign." Figuring out train schedules in France (aside from language) isn't all that different from figuring out train schedules in Britain.

I just think some slack needs to be cut here to Americans. Especially when you grow up and live in the midwest or south where it's a journey in and of itself to get to a city that is large enough to offer international flights. People have families to take care of as well, and sometimes you have to make choices between a European tour or paying for your kid's healthcare or college...such as the case of my parents this year when they had planned on going to Europe but instead had other bills come up. If it were as easy as to hop a Ryan Air flight and take a 3 hour flight to Spain with your 6 weeks holiday I'm sure more Americans would. But it just isn't that easy.

[Captain Oates 911]

I'm going to defend the Americans again here on the passport issue. It is possible to travel cheaply, but most people are more comfortable taking the expensive tours...especially going to a place you've never been before. You grew up near to other foreign cultures...therefore they weren't so "foreign." Figuring out train schedules in France (aside from language) isn't all that different from figuring out train schedules in Britain.

I just think some slack needs to be cut here to Americans. Especially when you grow up and live in the midwest or south where it's a journey in and of itself to get to a city that is large enough to offer international flights. People have families to take care of as well, and sometimes you have to make choices between a European tour or paying for your kid's healthcare or college...such as the case of my parents this year when they had planned on going to Europe but instead had other bills come up. If it were as easy as to hop a Ryan Air flight and take a 3 hour flight to Spain with your 6 weeks holiday I'm sure more Americans would. But it just isn't that easy.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all your points which are 100% valid.

However, americans who should know better, and have plenty of money, are also very inward looking in general. I have met americans out there in far flung places who were more cosmopolitan than me, and more at ease than me in foreign cultures and spoke the language beautifully - so it isn't all americans. The american culture does not preclude wordliness for individuals, it just discourages it for the masses

I guess I am despairing about americans living on $700 per month, listening to mitt romney saying they are better off than any other people in the world, and Barrack saying his story would be impossible in any other country - its not true and is a deception on americans who dont know whether its true or not because they dont have any experiences to compare it with. Romney also said the 'US is the finest country that ever existed in the history of the world' - how does that play with a citizen of another country watching CNN ? Why can't we agree that no country should go around strutting that stuff ?

The UK abolished slavery before the US. The UK had women voting before the US. The UK abolished capital punishment before the US which has not yet. The UK had a woman head of government and the US still hasn't.

Margaret Thatcher's successor was the son of a trapeze artist !

So why all this superiority drum beating all the time from the US ? It is that which is annoying the world.

The rest of the world has plenty of bad things (including the UK) so why can't the US be just one of the family instead of leaning over the fence and saying 'my wife is prettier than yours'

That sort of attitude is bound to annoy people.

[Jeraly 4]

"minotities" - Mammaries of female minotaurs

[Captain Oates 911]

"minotities" - Mammaries of female minotaurs

Obama was a 'minotities community organiser' - is that the same as a small bra ?

[Jeraly 4]

"minotities" - Mammaries of female minotaurs

Obama was a 'minotities community organiser' - is that the same as a small bra ?

Maybe so - perhaps a representative of outsize undergarments?

Or a lover of Greek mythology...

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

The UK abolished slavery before the US. The UK had women voting before the US. The UK abolished capital punishment before the US which has not yet. The UK had a woman head of government and the US still hasn't.

Margaret Thatcher's successor was the son of a trapeze artist !

Minor correction - the supreme court suspended the death penalty with the Furman decision in 1972 (there had been no executions since 1967). Executions resumed as a matter of state law (several states don't have the death penalty) with the Gary Gilmore execution after 2 SCOTUS decisions in 1976.

With regards to Obama's story "only being possible in the United States." Can you point to a political figure of a minority in Europe or elsewhere as powerful as Obama, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell? Because I'm racking my brain on that one.

[Captain Oates 911]

The UK abolished slavery before the US. The UK had women voting before the US. The UK abolished capital punishment before the US which has not yet. The UK had a woman head of government and the US still hasn't.

Margaret Thatcher's successor was the son of a trapeze artist !

Minor correction - the supreme court suspended the death penalty with the Furman decision in 1972 (there had been no executions since 1967). Executions resumed as a matter of state law (several states don't have the death penalty) with the Gary Gilmore execution after 2 SCOTUS decisions in 1976.

With regards to Obama's story "only being possible in the United States." Can you point to a political figure of a minority in Europe or elsewhere as powerful as Obama, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell? Because I'm racking my brain on that one.

Jews are a minority group, and Margaret Thatcher's circle of ministers and Tony Blair's too , had a huge proportion of Jews

The UK does not have the percentage of black people that the US has because we were the suppliers (to our shame) of black people , rather than the buyers. Otherwise it wouldn't be a problem. The UK has never lynched a black man - what about america ? Eh ? Eh ? curl up with shame !

Only in the US have dozens of black men been lynched - Obama should have said that if his speech was to be balanced

Promoting a few tokens does not make up for what the black people in the US have gone through

The last town I lived in in England had majority pakistani population - very soon now there will be many 'minority' leaders but they will be white middle aged guys

That town's MP was Jack Straw and he took Condie Rice to a real football game 400 yards from where I lived

If Jack Straw as MP for Blackburn isn't a 'minority' leader then I dont know who is

I repeat - nobody is 'putting the US down' - simply calling for the US to stop presenting itself as superior

[truffles 2]

well said...you beat me to the Margaret Thatcher reference.

Edited September 10, 2008 by truffles

[truffles 2]

The fact of the matter is Maggie herself was at that time part of a minority group - women in politics.

[Captain Oates 911]

The fact of the matter is Maggie herself was at that time part of a minority group - women in politics.

I am not young, but I will live to see universal health care and a woman president and no more executions or torture in the US

In Palin's area, a woman complaining of rape is tested using a rape kit and then then the police send her a bill !!!!

Individual responsibilty and no subsidy

She is not in favour of rape victoms getting the morning after pill even !

I don't worry about the US because although it's 50 years behind the rest of the world in many things, the direction IS forward - and even if it doesn't catch up, it is getting better and better

Soon, the idea that dinosaurs were not ridden by indians in wyoming or barbecued outside tepees in montana 4000 years ago , will spread right across the US and people will see that praying for pipelines or hospitals bundling paralysed illegal imigrants into private planes and flying them out of the country without reference to government will all stop

Stuff the money, where is the civilisation ?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I don't disagree with where you're coming from.......I don't disagree with the terrible stain with regards to America's past on issues of race, but when I was referring to "minorities" I was specifically talking about people of color, not Jews or women. There is a pretty visible non-white population in the UK (whether black or Asian) - I don't see them as well represented in positions of power as they are here.

[Captain Oates 911]

I don't disagree with where you're coming from.......I don't disagree with the terrible stain with regards to America's past on issues of race, but when I was referring to "minorities" I was specifically talking about people of color, not Jews or women. There is a pretty visible non-white population in the UK (whether black or Asian) - I don't see them as well represented in positions of power as they are here.

You are right there - but at the moment they don't feel the urgency because the labour party is totally at one with them over easy immigration and 'working with' their communities and setting up sharia divorce courts etc . People like Jack Straw do the job of representing their interests very well so white men representatives are ok for now...

I agree that there are very few 'coloured' people in the UK parliament , but their views and interests are very well represented because the MP's need their votes and it won't be long before they have a lot more of their very own representatives. While the whites are still the majority in the country, the 'coloured' community will get more of their own way with the whites making changes on their behalf so as not to alarm white voters

As soon as they are the majority, they will have no need of white surrogates

That is how democracy works, the leading of the majority by the minority - when the UK banned hanging, 70% of the population were against it but not vociferously - so the leaders managed to do it

The passive minority will allow their inner wishes to be over-ridden for a quiet life

Anyway, Obama ain't home and dry yet - perhaps racism in the US has not been defeated

and it isn't unknown for black people to be shot as soon as they become leaders -

'only in America are political leaders shot with such frequency' - how would that do for a sound bite ?

Nope, it's preposterous to claim that the US is at ease with the idea of a black head of government and the UK isnt

We have even had a Jewish PM - how long before the US will go with that eh ?

The UK has had the leader of a majority party who was.....wait for it ...an ATHEIST !!!!

and then an unmarried man ? ted heath ? heavens he might be GAY !!!!!

imagine a gay president ? - imagine him /her not being shot ?

Nope, the UK has it when it comes to tolerance

When the US has had a president for 4 years without getting shot, who is black/gay and an atheist - then I might give the US points for tolerance, until then, Blighty in the rain wins hands down any time on this point

Trouble with americans is they wont even agree to be equal with other nations - they think that suggestion is 'putting america down'

They simply have to be 'better' and anyone who does not acknowledge their superiority is anti-american and has to be confronted and defeated - it's in the blood now

[ginger1981 0]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all your points which are 100% valid.

However, americans who should know better, and have plenty of money, are also very inward looking in general. I have met americans out there in far flung places who were more cosmopolitan than me, and more at ease than me in foreign cultures and spoke the language beautifully - so it isn't all americans. The american culture does not preclude wordliness for individuals, it just discourages it for the masses

I guess I am despairing about americans living on $700 per month, listening to mitt romney saying they are better off than any other people in the world, and Barrack saying his story would be impossible in any other country - its not true and is a deception on americans who dont know whether its true or not because they dont have any experiences to compare it with. Romney also said the 'US is the finest country that ever existed in the history of the world' - how does that play with a citizen of another country watching CNN ? Why can't we agree that no country should go around strutting that stuff ?

The UK abolished slavery before the US. The UK had women voting before the US. The UK abolished capital punishment before the US which has not yet. The UK had a woman head of government and the US still hasn't.

Margaret Thatcher's successor was the son of a trapeze artist !

So why all this superiority drum beating all the time from the US ? It is that which is annoying the world.

The rest of the world has plenty of bad things (including the UK) so why can't the US be just one of the family instead of leaning over the fence and saying 'my wife is prettier than yours'

That sort of attitude is bound to annoy people.

Ok I can understand where you are coming from there. It is awfully hard to know you are supposedly the "best" when you have never been anywhere else. Not to mention that different groups of people have different definitions of what greatness entails.

One thing that always has annoyed me is the rampant dislike of France from those who have never been there. My experiences in France have been almost positive...except for a Algerian on a Montemartre street who called me an "American Pr*ck" as I went to do my laundry. I actually found it more hilarious than anything.

[Jeraly 4]

Ginger - I have had this with Jeremy - he is convinced he could tell a French person from an English person just by looking at them!!! He doesn't have a problem with any particular race though. I have always found the French to be lovely and hospitable, not the arrogant people that they are stereotyped as being at times...

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Nope, it's preposterous to claim that the US is at ease with the idea of a black head of government and the UK isnt

And that's not what I was suggesting ....only that we have come much closer to achieving it. I guess I'm tired of my UK friends wondering if "america is ready for a black president" and if we don't elect him we are "racist" when in fact the UK is quite far from doing that themselves. And as someone who in a former life as a social research analyst interviewed Met police in work that would underpin the McPherson Report - lets just say I always become very contrary when UK people insist they are "better" when it comes to race relations than we are in the US. and I'm the first to say in the US we have a long way to go.