Consummated Marriage

[Ever 0]

Who May not file this Form I-130?

4. A husband or wife, if you and your spouse were not both physically present at the marriage ceremony, and the marriage was not consummated.

I plan to go through civil marriage in December 2008 and then have the church wedding after my Spouse receives the approval of I-130. We will not have sexual relations before the church wedding.

Will INS accept the application? Will INS recognized our marriage legal if we don't have sexual relations, or consummate the marriage?

I will be physically present at the civil marriage. Will that be enough? Or does INS require us to consummate the marriage (have sex) too?

I would appreciate your answers.

[desert_fox 32]

Who May not file this Form I-130?

4. A husband or wife, if you and your spouse were not both physically present at the marriage ceremony, and the marriage was not consummated.

I plan to go through civil marriage in December 2008 and then have the church wedding after my Spouse receives the approval of I-130. We will not have sexual relations before the church wedding.

Will INS accept the application? Will INS recognized our marriage legal if we don't have sexual relations, or consummate the marriage?

I will be physically present at the civil marriage. Will that be enough? Or does INS require us to consummate the marriage (have sex) too?

I would appreciate your answers.

Which part of the instructions didnt you understand??

[reeses16 8]

USCIS will accept the application, you will be physically present at the your wedding.

Throughout the process people are not usually asked whether or not they had sex (or how often etc...). But I have read where VJ members reported that interviewers asked inappropriate questions about their sex lives.

[lucyrich 20]

No worries.

Some jurisdictions recognize a thing called "marriage by proxy", where two people can get married even though they aren't in the same location during the wedding ceremony. One of the partners attends the service by telephone, telegraph, webcam, whatever. Sounds crazy, and it's not common, and not even legal everywhere, but it can sometimes be done.

All that paragraph says is that if you have one of those marriages by proxy, you can't use it for immigration purposes until after you've consummated it. And the consummation must, by legal definition, happen after the wedding. Obviously, you must be together in the same room in order to consummate the marriage. By deduction, that means you can't use a marriage by proxy to avoid the need to get together in the same country.

Without that language, some people could use a K-3 visa or CR-1 visa obtained via a marriage by proxy to get around the physical meeting requirement that comes with the K-1. They could marry someone by telephone, then apply for a visa, without ever having seen their bride or groom in person! That's just too wierd a possibility, and the legislators decided to explicitly say you can't do that.

This is not an issue to worry about if you're both going to be standing together at the altar in the same building during your wedding ceremony.

Oh, and tales of investigators querying about sex lives seem to be pretty exaggerated. They have ways of knowing whether you were living together without getting into such purient details. Which side of the bed do each of you sleep on? Where does he keep his socks? Is her toothbrush normally to the left, right, or above the sink? In the vast majority of cases, they don't even get into that level of personal detail. The most personal question they asked us during the whole process was "what was your wedding date?"

[morocco4ever 63]

No worries.

Some jurisdictions recognize a thing called "marriage by proxy", where two people can get married even though they aren't in the same location during the wedding ceremony. One of the partners attends the service by telephone, telegraph, webcam, whatever. Sounds crazy, and it's not common, and not even legal everywhere, but it can sometimes be done.

All that paragraph says is that if you have one of those marriages by proxy, you can't use it for immigration purposes until after you've consummated it. And the consummation must, by legal definition, happen after the wedding. Obviously, you must be together in the same room in order to consummate the marriage. By deduction, that means you can't use a marriage by proxy to avoid the need to get together in the same country.

Without that language, some people could use a K-3 visa or CR-1 visa obtained via a marriage by proxy to get around the physical meeting requirement that comes with the K-1. They could marry someone by telephone, then apply for a visa, without ever having seen their bride or groom in person! That's just too wierd a possibility, and the legislators decided to explicitly say you can't do that.

This is not an issue to worry about if you're both going to be standing together at the altar in the same building during your wedding ceremony.

Oh, and tales of investigators querying about sex lives seem to be pretty exaggerated. They have ways of knowing whether you were living together without getting into such purient details. Which side of the bed do each of you sleep on? Where does he keep his socks? Is her toothbrush normally to the left, right, or above the sink? In the vast majority of cases, they don't even get into that level of personal detail. The most personal question they asked us during the whole process was "what was your wedding date?"

I don't think I would want to trust this advice unless you are prepared for a denial. I have to admit I am quite baffled about the situation. Are you the applicant or the USC?

[pushbrk 12,569]

No worries.

Some jurisdictions recognize a thing called "marriage by proxy", where two people can get married even though they aren't in the same location during the wedding ceremony. One of the partners attends the service by telephone, telegraph, webcam, whatever. Sounds crazy, and it's not common, and not even legal everywhere, but it can sometimes be done.

All that paragraph says is that if you have one of those marriages by proxy, you can't use it for immigration purposes until after you've consummated it. And the consummation must, by legal definition, happen after the wedding. Obviously, you must be together in the same room in order to consummate the marriage. By deduction, that means you can't use a marriage by proxy to avoid the need to get together in the same country.

Without that language, some people could use a K-3 visa or CR-1 visa obtained via a marriage by proxy to get around the physical meeting requirement that comes with the K-1. They could marry someone by telephone, then apply for a visa, without ever having seen their bride or groom in person! That's just too wierd a possibility, and the legislators decided to explicitly say you can't do that.

This is not an issue to worry about if you're both going to be standing together at the altar in the same building during your wedding ceremony.

Oh, and tales of investigators querying about sex lives seem to be pretty exaggerated. They have ways of knowing whether you were living together without getting into such purient details. Which side of the bed do each of you sleep on? Where does he keep his socks? Is her toothbrush normally to the left, right, or above the sink? In the vast majority of cases, they don't even get into that level of personal detail. The most personal question they asked us during the whole process was "what was your wedding date?"

I don't think I would want to trust this advice unless you are prepared for a denial. I have to admit I am quite baffled about the situation. Are you the applicant or the USC?

Lucyrich's advise is absolutely right on the money. The OP's concern is of no consequence whatsoever, if the couple is together at the legal marriage. He's only confused because he missed the word "not" as the operative word in the sentence that confused him.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

and they have been known to ask (certain) details

[Ever 0]

Thank you for the different responses. I have been getting both in other places too.

Here is my situation:

I am here in the States and she is in Venezuela. We "WERE" planning in having two weedings in Venezuela.

The first for LEGAL purposes for her to process her I-130 and K-3 Visa. We would have NO sex after this ceremony. I will be returning to the United States after the ceremony.

Once approved and granted, we would have had our second wedding ceremony by CHURCH. This time we will be seing each other as husband and wife. In other words, the marriage will consummated after the second ceremony.

And I am confused by the sentence stating that I SHOULD NOT APPLY IF "you and your spouse were not both physically present at the marriage ceremony, AND the marriage was not consummated."

Does it mean that both of us must be present AND consummated the marriage before applying? Or by being present at our first wedding is enough? In other words, will INS accept our first wedding ceremony even if don't have sex?

WE ARE NOT WILLING TO LIE. So lying is not an option for us. Does this mean we have to get married in the States (K-1 Visa) or wait apart from each other after we get married until her K-3 Visa is approved?

I have an appointment at my local INS office in August. I will be asking them this question because the phone representatives have not being able to answer this for me. I appreciate your responces and replies.

[pushbrk 12,569]

And I am confused by the sentence stating that I SHOULD NOT APPLY IF "you and your spouse were not both physically present at the marriage ceremony, AND the marriage was not consummated."

Does it mean that both of us must be present AND consummated the marriage before applying? Or by being present at our first wedding is enough? In other words, will INS accept our first wedding ceremony even if don't have sex?

No, it means if BOTH conditions exist, it won't work. So, if only one of you is present for the marriage, it must be consumated (meaning together in person, not proof you had intercourse). This clause is for people who have proxy marriages. It doesn't/cannot apply to you because you will both be present at the legal marriage.

The two conditions, 1. not present at marriage and 2. marriage not subsequently consumated must exist together for the clause to apply.

Relax. You're ok.

[lucyrich 20]

Boolean algebra can be tough. How do you apply the ANDs, ORs and NOTs in a sentence to figure out whether the whole condition is true?

In this case, it might be easier to look at the actual text of the law from which the I-130 instructions get their authority (then again, maybe the actual law isn't that much easier to understand, but we'll try it):

(35) The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated.

IOW, you're not considered married for immigration purposes if you weren't both present at your ceremony, unless your marriage has already been consummated.

If your marriage has been consummated, you're considered married for immigration purposes, regardless of whether you were both present at the ceremony.

If you were both present at the ceremony, you're considered married for immigration purposes, regardless of whether the marriage has been consummated.

[Ever 0]

(35) The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated./quote]

If you were both present at the ceremony, you're considered married for immigration purposes, regardless of whether the marriage has been consummated.

Thank You! I hope you are right. You do make a strong statement (convincing). All doubts will be cleared on August 4 when I meet an INS oficer.

Can someone send me a link to INS norms/laws (Section for marriage purposes). That would really help me too. I know you listed the INA 101(35)...Where can I find this information?

Thank you for the responses =)...It is looking promising!

[lucyrich 20]

I know you listed the INA 101(35)...Where can I find this information?

Go to http://www.uscis.gov

Click on the tab near the top center of the screen that says "Laws and Regulations".

On the left, click on the "Immigration and Nationality Act" link.

In the middle of the screen, click on "Immigration and Nationality Act"

Click on "ACT 101: Definitions"

Now you're reading the text of INA 101, but unfortunately, this particular chapter is too long to fit on one page of the USCIS ProPublish system. So you've got to look near the top of the page, and find the little icon of a paper page with a green arrow on it. Click this to advance to the next page. If you do this properly, you'll see Act 101(a)15P at the top of your page.

Finally, scroll down to paragraph (35).

I would have tried to send you a direct link to the thing, but the USCIS ProPublish system uses strange conventions and I'm not always able to get a link to work if I try to link to a particular thing deep inside the INA. So by giving you these long involved directions, I hope you'll be able to find the text, and maybe you'll see some other useful or interesting information along the way.

[cmnb 0]

(35) The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated./quote]

If you were both present at the ceremony, you're considered married for immigration purposes, regardless of whether the marriage has been consummated.

Thank You! I hope you are right. You do make a strong statement (convincing). All doubts will be cleared on August 4 when I meet an INS oficer.

Can someone send me a link to INS norms/laws (Section for marriage purposes). That would really help me too. I know you listed the INA 101(35)...Where can I find this information?

Thank you for the responses =)...It is looking promising!

Ever,

Here is my opinion on the above:

I would not suggest you meet with an immigration officer. You are raising an eyebrow for no reason whatsover..If you have had a legal civil marriage and have proof to support that marriage (affidavit from people who can attest that the wedding took place : remember you have to provide two affidavits from people who have knowledge of the bonafides of your wedding)provide other proofs of your civil marriage, like pictures of the marriage....you dont even have to mention your plans of having a second marriage...USCIS accepts a civil marriage as a legal binding between a husband and a wife...USCIS may not accept just the church wedding but will definately accept the civil wedding as it is legal and legitimate in the eyes of the law...

just apply for the I-130....1. they will not ask you about your sexual relationships...these kind of questions are only asked if the case appears to b fraudulaent....

good luck!!

[pushbrk 12,569]

(35) The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated./quote]

If you were both present at the ceremony, you're considered married for immigration purposes, regardless of whether the marriage has been consummated.

Thank You! I hope you are right. You do make a strong statement (convincing). All doubts will be cleared on August 4 when I meet an INS oficer.

Can someone send me a link to INS norms/laws (Section for marriage purposes). That would really help me too. I know you listed the INA 101(35)...Where can I find this information?

Thank you for the responses =)...It is looking promising!

Ever,

Here is my opinion on the above:

I would not suggest you meet with an immigration officer. You are raising an eyebrow for no reason whatsover..If you have had a legal civil marriage and have proof to support that marriage (affidavit from people who can attest that the wedding took place : remember you have to provide two affidavits from people who have knowledge of the bonafides of your wedding)provide other proofs of your civil marriage, like pictures of the marriage....you dont even have to mention your plans of having a second marriage...USCIS accepts a civil marriage as a legal binding between a husband and a wife...USCIS may not accept just the church wedding but will definately accept the civil wedding as it is legal and legitimate in the eyes of the law...

just apply for the I-130....1. they will not ask you about your sexual relationships...these kind of questions are only asked if the case appears to b fraudulaent....

good luck!!

I strongly agree that meeting with an immigration officer is the wrong move. A legal marriage certificate is sufficient to satisfy immigration law, provided the marriage was not by proxy. (that both parties were present)

I don't agree with providing affidavits attesting to the marriage "taking place". Such affidavits, when used are to attest to the bona fides of the relationship, not the legality of the marriage or that it "took place". The legal marriage certificate takes care of attesting to the marriage "taking place".

Further, I've seen no evidence that such affidavits are helpful for newlyweds who've never lived together in the same country, precisely BECAUSE the affiants would know little about the relationship and usually only about the wedding.

Again bona fides are not about weddings. They are about relationships.

[nunyab 0]

and they have been known to ask (certain) details

really??