My Husband's Father was Deported Yesterday

[LoriLawless 0]

*sigh*

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Once again, reading comprehension is clearly not your forté, JP. I would appreciate not putting words in my mouth, thank you. I never suggested when she should look at the links, I said it was a "good start" as is the formal complaint form that is provide by me. Nonetheless, I am dismayed that before commenting to the contrary about members that have taken time to read about her dilemma and offer HELPFUL support (yes, that comes in all sorts of packages, INCLUDING information!) that others wouldn't be somewhat more curious.

Ok so now I have reading comprehension issues too? Wonderul! You know I think the same can be said about you. No one has ever said that you didn't offer good information. However that isn't what she was looking for. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Ah, I see. So the whole thread was just for ranting and venting. Got it! Not my bag. Are there any other threads I shouldn't participate in, then?

[♥JP♥ 5]

Once again, reading comprehension is clearly not your forté, JP. I would appreciate not putting words in my mouth, thank you. I never suggested when she should look at the links, I said it was a "good start" as is the formal complaint form that is provide by me. Nonetheless, I am dismayed that before commenting to the contrary about members that have taken time to read about her dilemma and offer HELPFUL support (yes, that comes in all sorts of packages, INCLUDING information!) that others wouldn't be somewhat more curious.

Ok so now I have reading comprehension issues too? Wonderul! You know I think the same can be said about you. No one has ever said that you didn't offer good information. However that isn't what she was looking for. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Ah, I see. So the whole thread was just for ranting and venting. Got it! Not my bag. Are there any other threads I shouldn't participate in, then?

Maybe if I didn't have any reading comprehension problems I could guide you to the right threads.

[Marilyn. 340]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

[Marilyn. 340]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

umm come on no one has said it was unappreciated.... at least not that I am aware of... the OP is prolly not ready for that kind of help yet...

[Jenn! 918]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

umm come on no one has said it was unappreciated.... at least not that I am aware of... the OP is prolly not ready for that kind of help yet...

Yes, best to let things go and move on. The OP can go back and read the previously posted information when she is ready for it. Can we get back on track now, everyone?

[S and S 12]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

Honestly, you did try to point out some valid reasons and some information about how the process works. Which would have been fine and helpful. I don't think it was ever about that. The problem was with how you presented it. This is a sensitive time where emotions are high. The way you presented your information came off sounding unfeeling and harsh. It would be like a doctor telling someone their father is dead and offering no compassion, just start asking questions about what he did in his last days. You just need a little tact when offering information to someone who is obviously upset. I think if you had, the information would have been well recieved. I remember thinking from the beginning that you made good points, but that you really came off so cold that it was hard to want to see your points.

[Steven Shirley 0]

For both allousa and Alexandra V. I am SOOO sorry you/families were treated to wrongfully and horribly. My heart and prayers go out to you!! Everyone has already suggested most to what I would suggest, lawyer, media, congressman, ACLU etc.

I would like to point out to the VJ community that these are just two examples of the danger we who have family in other countries are in. Since 911 our government has simply had to say "national security / privacy act" and then do anything they please without being even require to fully disclose what or why they are doing it.

I know that the road will be difficult if you choose to fight this and I understand if the pain and difficulty is to much to bare, but if you can it will make all of us safer. In support of whatever efforts you choose to make I would be honored to sign any petition you might start as a result. Additionally, i am offering to send you $50 toward your expenses...I understand that amount is NOTHING compared to legal costs but if VJers unite behind this both in sympathy and material support this could be used to expose the clear abuses of power that are going on against both legal foreigners and US citizens. PLEASE PM me if you wish to take me up on my token financial offer.

To VJ community, please stand behind Sara in anyway possible for all of our collective safety. This is an atrocity that should NEVER happen again....but that will only be true if the people involved are exposed publicly and penalized severely enough to get the system to change. Until then, any one of us could be writing this story next.

All my best wishes and prayers!

Steven

[rebeccajo 14]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

umm come on no one has said it was unappreciated.... at least not that I am aware of... the OP is prolly not ready for that kind of help yet...

Yes, best to let things go and move on. The OP can go back and read the previously posted information when she is ready for it. Can we get back on track now, everyone?

What track would that be, Jenn? This is an immigration website. Diaddie and I were offering immigration information. Are there times when that is not allowed? Are we to take the temperature of a thread first before we post? Mysteriously gauge whether or not the OP is 'ready'? Somehow I thought the links I offered might be of some comfort. Apparently not.

Unbelieveable.

Edited July 13, 2008 by rebeccajo

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

My FIL was NEVER given a document to sign. NOT THE ENTIRE TIME WAS HE GIVEN A DOCUMENT TO SIGN.

Was he asked if he wanted to sign something?

From what my father in law told us, one of the CBP officers scratched through his passport but since they took it and put it in the sealed envelope to give to the German officials, we never saw what was written.

Where is the passport now? What is written in it?

P.S. I feel (a perception of course) like I am pulling teeth to get the information

There seems to clearly be 2 very separate issues that you seem not to be able to keep straight diad

One is why was her FIL refused. On this issue the OP states she has retained counsel. OP seems distressed and confused about why he was refused but this doesn't seem to be the source of outrage. You seem to repeatedly misattribute this as the source of outrage (as if it is the sole issue) and minimize the outrage by offering facts about reasons for refusal, for which issue OP has retained what sounds like very capable counsel. If you feel more capable than counsel to address this issue, then message OP privately with your business card.

Although the first issue is upsetting to the OP it seems quite clear (unless, of course we question your reading comprehension skills as you have rather arrogantly chosen to question other's) that the outrage part comes from something altogether different.

1) Being left without information on why a family member is being detained for an extended period of time.

2) Being left in an airport baggage claim with limited facilities with a small child during this episode.

3) Being yelled at in a threatening way when approaching customs to ask for information.

4)Being told many things by US officials (such as he won't be housed with the general population) that turned out not to be true.

5)Being left in the dark about why such action was necessary

6) et al. I'm sure I don't have them all covered.

I'm sure that counsel will address these issues also, most especially if refusal was not on solid ground. It is not at all surprising that at this point issue 1 and 2 weave together for the OP. If you are as clear-headed as you claim to be, you should be able to sort it out however.

The reason people have responded to your posts as "cold" is that issue one is clearly handled and issue two is the source of outrage. You suggest that the outrage at being treated in this way is misplaced and that the indignities they may have suffered (which she has described for you in detail) are not worthy of outrage, should the CBP action be technically valid. Whether you intend that message or not, that is what you communicate by ignoring the true source of her rage.

One sign you should look for of people with poor communication skills, when they receive feedback from multiple sources that their communication is being received poorly at the other end, rather than re-evaluate their communication, they attack others and forge ahead with why they are right.

It seems rather clear that for CBP to have notified the family that was waiting immediately, advised them of where their relatives were and that they were safe, allowed them to decide if all should wait or, if they expected a long detention, that the child could be taken home, treated the family (who you may recall is a USC and her perm res spouse and child) with respect and understanding for their difficult situation, offered them a contact person to check for updates, offered them facilities for a reasonably comfortable stay during their prolonged wait and advised them clearly of the reasons for the action being taken, it would not have violated any US law or immigration protocol. Unless you can sight for us the law requires border agents to act in abusive ways towards USC family of detainees, your attempts to demonstrate how smart you are on issue one will probably not be well taken.

Unless I am misreading the OP (and she may certainly correct me if I am) she seems understandably angry and confused about why her FIL was refused, but outraged about the way that her entire family, including USC were treated. Whether or not you intend it your posts come across as suggesting said treatment of USC and family is excusable, if there was good reason for refusal. It simply is not.

You took a very bad step step when you suggested that the outrage over issue 2 should be tempered depending on the outcome of issue 1. When posters pointed out that it was issue 2 that was the source of outrage, you continued to force feed info on issue 1, which made you seem insensitive to issue 2 and gave the appearance that you were more interested in showing how much you know than with helping the OP.

I'm sure everyone here is aware that detentions, interrogations and even refusals are possible. You may believe that during that process it doesn't really matter how USC, husband and child are treated. It is clear that what would have tempered the outrage would have been respectful, humane treatment of all involved. Unless you can cite the section of Immigration law that requires USC, husband and child to be treated like sh*t, I think your work here is done. I think we can all agree that you are a very, very smart person. Thanks for sharing.

OP has clearly demonstrated that she is in an emotionally vulnerable state and you have made it worse. By any definition I know, that does not qualify as help.

PS that perception of pulling teeth to get info might be because no one here retained you as counsel in the matter and so no one understands why you feel you are owed information.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

Honestly, you did try to point out some valid reasons and some information about how the process works. Which would have been fine and helpful. I don't think it was ever about that. The problem was with how you presented it. This is a sensitive time where emotions are high. The way you presented your information came off sounding unfeeling and harsh. It would be like a doctor telling someone their father is dead and offering no compassion, just start asking questions about what he did in his last days. You just need a little tact when offering information to someone who is obviously upset. I think if you had, the information would have been well recieved. I remember thinking from the beginning that you made good points, but that you really came off so cold that it was hard to want to see your points.

Oh, please. I was neither tactless nor cold. I didn't buy right into the "woe is me", the USA is a terrible place, because quite frankly, the jury is still out on that, so why would I bash my own country, until it is clearly necessary? Choosing to remain unemotional and not outraged, as others were wont to be is a far cry from being harsh, brutal, tactless and all other qualifiers that have been assigned to my contribution.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I didn't buy right into the "woe is me", the USA is a terrible place, because quite frankly, the jury is still out on that, so why would I bash my own country, until it is clearly necessary?

[Jenn! 918]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

umm come on no one has said it was unappreciated.... at least not that I am aware of... the OP is prolly not ready for that kind of help yet...

Yes, best to let things go and move on. The OP can go back and read the previously posted information when she is ready for it. Can we get back on track now, everyone?

What track would that be, Jenn? This is an immigration website. Diaddie and I were offering immigration information. Are there times when that is not allowed? Are we to take the temperature of a thread first before we post? Mysteriously gauge whether or not the OP is 'ready'? Somehow I thought the links I offered might be of some comfort. Apparently not.

Unbelieveable.

Yes, apparently not. Your advice is useful, but at this point the thread has deteriorated into bickering, unfortunately, and that is not going to help the OP or anyone else.

The "track" would be discussing the situation - whether through words of support or more concrete advice. My request was directed to everyone.

[rebeccajo 14]

I think we should all step away from the thread and take a few deep breaths

Good idea. My time is too precious to offer help where it is not appreciated.

umm come on no one has said it was unappreciated.... at least not that I am aware of... the OP is prolly not ready for that kind of help yet...

Yes, best to let things go and move on. The OP can go back and read the previously posted information when she is ready for it. Can we get back on track now, everyone?

What track would that be, Jenn? This is an immigration website. Diaddie and I were offering immigration information. Are there times when that is not allowed? Are we to take the temperature of a thread first before we post? Mysteriously gauge whether or not the OP is 'ready'? Somehow I thought the links I offered might be of some comfort. Apparently not.

Unbelieveable.

Yes, apparently not. Your advice is useful, but at this point the thread has deteriorated into bickering, unfortunately, and that is not going to help the OP or anyone else.

The "track" would be discussing the situation - whether through words of support or more concrete advice. My request was directed to everyone.

We were told concrete advice was not wanted. You state yourself the OP may find it useful 'later'.

What if it had never been posted at all because non-MENA members decide it's not worth it to come to MENA?

Or is that the way you all want it?