N-400 Expedited Naturalization 319b Information

mnbinth · November 4, 2008

That's a good question. It sure makes it difficult to plan ahead when you don't know when the oath ceremony will be and it takes another couple weeks for the passport! The USCIS document says "You must show evidence that you will join your spouse overseas within 45 days of your naturalization." Naturalization isn't final until the oath, but how do you show proof of departure at the interview when you don't know when the oath ceremony is? I'll hopefully find out in another month or so and let you know. Anyone else know?

T and M · November 4, 2008

I'm actually pleased to hear that it is naturalization and not the interview, b/c if they give us an interview in early February, we can't leave for around 50-60 days due to the birth of a child. I'm guessing that most interviewees take the first oath possible, be it the same day or a week or two later. But hopefully they will let us wait a few weeks for the oath. Ideally, the oath would be 2-4 weeks before travel, to allow time to get a passport.

Due to the delivery and all we have a flexible ticket on 2 April. Hopefully this will serve as "proof."

Where is your interview supposed to take place. Some of the timelines in VJ should help you to pinpoint the normal time between oath and interview. Why not have a flight purchased for 6 weeks (42 days) after the interview? Surely they will have the oath ceremony within that time....Most 319b timelines that I have found on VJ had the oath within a week or so of the interview.

Completely · November 5, 2008

Thomas, to answer your question, the Notice will come in the Mail, they will tell you when or where will be the interview.. You can plan ahead because they put the date as to when they will do her interview.. Now, the dilemma on this is, if the interview date is after 3 weeks, and the mail came to your house in the US, then your mother mailed it to you, it will be late for you to plan ahead when to leave, by the time the letter arrived in Bolivia,

My advice is, whoever received the letter in the US, if you trust the person who received that mail for you.. Have them scan the letter and email it to you... just to know the dates of the interview.. You can not cancel this date or else it will take forever for them to schedule one.

This is what happened to me in the past, my sister in law received the letter on 20 May, then the interview date is set on June 10th.. I received the mail from her on 4th June, I had to buy rush ticket and that cost me a lot.. The other dilemma is if you received the letter in Bolivia and the dates is already passed...she wont be able to go to interview and the USCIS will think that she is not interested.

I dont know how the mail systems works there in Bolivia, but here overseas APO is really slow.

The officer will tell her when she will do the oath, it might be the same day, after a week, a month... it depends to service center..But you she can request if she wants to, especially because of her situation.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Completely

Completely · November 5, 2008

Let me rephrase this answer.. My grammar is all over the place as I was busy on other things.

Thomas, to answer your question, the Notice will come in the Mail, this is to inform you will tell you when and where will be the interview..

The dilemma on this is, if the interview date is set for example 2 December, your mother received the mail on 16th November...then she mailed it to you in Bolivia, but you received the mail on December 1. and the interview will be the next day...What will you do?

I dont have any idea how the mail system works in Bolivia, but my advice is, whoever received the letter in the US, if you trust the person who received that mail for you.. Have them scan the letter and email it to you... just to know in advance the dates of the interview to plan ahead of time.. You can cancel the interview date by notifying them my mail by this will not guaranty that she will get another date sooner.

Majority of the people who rescheduled it, takes forever to get new date and some case have been set aside.

I am giving advice to you based on what happened to me in the past, I had to spend a lot of money to get rush airline ticket.

This is the scenario last May:

My sister in law received the notice from USCIS regarding the date of interview on 20th May.. According to the letter the interview date is set on June 10th.. She mailed the letter to me on 21st May, but I received the mail from her on 4th June and we already have set vacation the same day of my interview going to my homecountry. If only I did tell my sister in law to open it for me and scan it and email it to me, probably we could have arranged our travel better, the way we want to. :innocent:

The mail systems overseas for APO is very slow.. I dont know how it is in Bolivia.

By the way, after her interview the officer will tell her when she will do the oath, it might be the same day, might be after a week, a month... it depends to service center..But you she can request to do it same day or another day if she wants to, just tell her to explain her situation to the officer.

Did you check her status online?

Goodluck!

Edited November 5, 2008 by Completely

T and M · November 5, 2008

Yes...my mother opens, scans, and emails us all mail related to USCIS. That's how we got our NOA1 so quickly. When it comes, we will certainly get there in time and not cancel! I have also heard the horror stories of what happens when someone tries to get a new interview date. We requested February/March, so we'll see what happens.

I did check her status online and it just confirmed what the NOA1 said, that it is being processed and that we had paid the application fee. I also signed up to receive email updates when the status changes.

The waiting period is not so much fun, but at least we have done what we can up to this point!

Good luck to everyone.

daader · November 18, 2008

Guys,

I just received my immigration visa (IR1) but have not yet entered the states to receive my green card. can i start the expedited 319b process now? my wife works for a contractor for USAID in Egypt and still has 2 more years to go. i believe it applies to us. I haven't found any info on whether i have to have my green card processed and received first or not!!

regards to all,

Mo

T and M · November 18, 2008

Unfortunately, no. You have to be a US permanent resident to file for expedited naturalization. At present, you merely hold an immigrant visa. You have to now immigrate before the expiration date on your IR-1 (usually 6 months). I don't think there is any way to do this without physically entering US territory. At that point, you should probably set up residency in the states, which means establish a permanent US address (your wife's family home perhaps?), and maybe do a few administrative things like setting up a bank account or something. This last bit is optional, but it helps prove that you are really establishing a US "permanent residence."

Since your wife works for USAID, however, you will be well on your way to expedited citizenship, and will probably not be bothered about your residence. US immigration law is good to spouses of US govt employees. But you have to wait until after you receive your A number (immigrant number) to file under 319b. You will get your A number upon your entry on your US immigrant visa (IR-1). It will be on your I-551 stamp which serves are your temporary Green Card. You will then be able to file from Egypt, but you will have to fly back to US territory (including Hawaii or Guam, but I think NY would be closer to Egypt than either of those) for the interview and oath.

If you are trying to minimize your time in the states, I would fly to the region that will be your "permanent residence," return to Egypt, file for expedited naturalization, have someone send you your Green Card and Social Security Card when they arrive, and then return to the US for your interview.

One thing, expedited naturalization takes around 5-6 months, and you have to show that your spouse is on a contract that will last at least 12 months after that. This means you will have to show that she is on a contract with USAID for approximately 18 months past the date that you file.

If you fly to the US now, you could be filing for citizenship within the next couple of weeks! Ma-Salaama...

milimelo · November 19, 2008

Isn't the A number already on the visa itself? I know mine was on my CR-1 visa - didn't start with an A# but it turned out to be that. You may want to check that.

Forgot to add: no other numbers beyond the date and class of admission (IR1. CR1, K1) are written in your passport. I am talking about experience from 5/30/2007 at POE Chicago.

Edited November 19, 2008 by milimelo

mnbinth · November 19, 2008

My first thought was of course you need to be a permanent resident. After reading through the legal documents, I'm not sure you have to. If you read the FAQ document on Section 319b, it says you have to follow the naturalization requirements of Section 316 and 319 of the INA, "except that no particular period of lawful permanent residence is required." It sounds like it's a question of terminology then. The word 'particular' indicates that you do need to be a permanent resident, but it doesn't matter how long. I'm not a lawyer. Anyone else have experience with legal terminology? I'd check with a lawyer if I were you because it seems vague to me. It makes me wonder if we could have skipped the time and money of applying for permanent residency.

Edited November 19, 2008 by feyser

T and M · November 19, 2008

Brilliant! You are exactly right. The A number is on my wife's CR-1 visa, although it isn't called an A number. It's called a "Registration number."

At POE, Atlanta, GA, July 2008, the officer endorsed my wife's CR-1 and wrote the registration number again, adding an A.

Still, the CR-1 visa says that it only serves as the temporary I-551 (temporary Green Card), once it is "endorsed." The trick would be, can you get it endorsed at the US embassy in Cairo given your spouse works for USAID? If you don't get it endorsed within 6 months, the CR-1 or IR-1 becomes invalid and you have to apply all over again to get US permanent residence. Since the N-400 naturalization process takes around 6 months, I wouldn't risk it.

Bottom line: if you fly to the US, you get the IR-1 endorsed which means you become a US permanent resident. NB: You don't begin your permanent residence period until you cross the POE.

I would bet that you have to enter the US before you begin the 319b process....but I also believe you don't have to stay for any set period of time. Theoretically, you could fly to the US, cross the POE, and then get on a plane back to Cairo an hour later. In practice, however, I would stay for a day or two just to keep from having flags raised. Remember, the IR-1/CR-1 process is only for spouses of US citizens who hold an intent to immigrant (ie establish permanent residence) in the US. If they find later that you did not have this intent, they could cause problems for your US permanent residence, without which you cannot apply US citizenship, according to all that I have read. Unfortunately it is a stepped process.

T and M · November 19, 2008

Also, after crossing a US point of entry, having your IR-1 endorsed, you may want to look into a form N-470, which allows you to leave the US again to join your spouse in Egypt, without risking the loss of your US permanent resident status that you have worked so hard to get and without which you can't apply for citizenship.

My wife and I did not do this, but we are also not planning on staying out of the US for more than 6 months. She got her PR in July 2008, we left in August 2008, and we are going back in January 2009.

As a USAID employee, I would definitely look into this Form N-470, just because it helps you maintain your PR status. Remember. PR status can be taken away! You aren't free to travel the world and take up employment wherever you want until you reach the next step!

Info on Form N-470

"Use Form N-470 to preserve your lawful permanent resident status for naturalization purposes.

Instructions

In certain limited situations, a person may be able to preserve residency, previously accumulated for naturalization purposes, even though he or she may be residing outside the United States for longer than one year. Thus the time spent abroad may be counted toward the residency requirement.

These cases involve persons employed in specific jobs in the United States government and private sector as well as religious organizations.

To obtain approval to preserve residency, such permanent residents must file a Form N-470 application before departing from the United States.

The regulations are different for religious workers proceeding abroad to perform religious duties. Religious workers may apply before or after departure, or after return to the United States. They are not required to have lived in the United States for a specific period of time prior to filing Form N-470.

Filing a Form N-470 does not relieve a permanent resident from obtaining a reentry permit, in advance of trips outside the United States for a year or more, nor does it relieve the applicant from the naturalization law's physical presence requirement."

daader · November 19, 2008

Thanks Guys, thats a lot of very helpful information.

i believe the best course of action is to travel to the US before christmas, spend the holidays with the family and maybe i would receive my green card before having to leave!

I like the idea of the N-470 but i am not sure how long would that take to get approval and besides the fact that my wife doesnt work for USAID, she is not a government employee, she works for a private sector NGO that is a USAID contractor, 3 year project in Egypt. I believe she falls under the american company involved in foreign trade development ......

how long would i need to stay to make sure i recieve my green card? i already have a bank account in the US, i used to live there between 2002 and 2004 for Grad school, what else to prove residency? getting my drivers license? any other ideas?

cheers for now.

Mo

T and M · November 19, 2008

Thanks Guys, thats a lot of very helpful information.

i believe the best course of action is to travel to the US before christmas, spend the holidays with the family and maybe i would receive my green card before having to leave!

I like the idea of the N-470 but i am not sure how long would that take to get approval and besides the fact that my wife doesnt work for USAID, she is not a government employee, she works for a private sector NGO that is a USAID contractor, 3 year project in Egypt. I believe she falls under the american company involved in foreign trade development ......

how long would i need to stay to make sure i recieve my green card? i already have a bank account in the US, i used to live there between 2002 and 2004 for Grad school, what else to prove residency? getting my drivers license? any other ideas?

cheers for now.

Mo

My wife and I just went through this. Basically, depending on the State, you may have to have a Social Security Number to get a drivers license. This should arrive at your US residence with a week or two if you checked the section on the DS-230 form asking that a SSN be automatically generated. If not, you can go by the local Social Security office and apply for a number, which should take a couple of weeks max. It's great that you have a US bank account, but it would be better if it were a joint account. This is optional. My wife's Green Card and Social Security Card arrived about 3-4 weeks after we entered the states. Since we left after only 10 days, however, my mother sent them to us. Remember, until the Green Card arrives (which can take months), you use your endorsed CR-1 visa as your Green Card. This includes getting a drivers license in most states, re-entering the US after short trips abroad, and - probably - applying for naturalization under 319b.

Now, your 319b application will need to include a letter from your wife's employer. If it is an Egyptian NGO that could cause a problem. The application requires information on the US state where the company is incorporated. It also has to be a company with over 50% US ownership (US citizen ownership). All this said, if she works for a local NGO that is on a USAID contract, you should get her to get a copy of the USAID contract and include that in your 319b application.

I tend to agree that N-470 might be more trouble that it is worth. The most important thing is that you do not stay gone too long and that you have available documentation demonstrating that your residence in Egypt is temporary in nature. Appropriate documentation would include a letter from your wife's employer stating that her assignment is temporary, that you guys are not looking to establish residence in any country other than the US, and that you will be moving back as soon as the assignment is over with.

Either way, you should probably file the 319b after you get back from Christmas, and plan to continue traveling back to the US every 160-170 days just in case. Come to think of it, the N-470 might be a good fallback in case your 319b application is delayed. It might be cheaper than continuing to fly back every 160-170 days.

There is also the possibility of obtaining a re-entry permit, which allows a US permanent resident to leave the US for up to 2 years without losing their PR status. The difference between this and the N-470 is that the latter allows you to count the time you spend abroad toward the residency requirement for US citizenship.

So complicated, but that's what we get for wanting to live and marry internationally.

P.S. Please check all of this. We might be making mistakes, and I would hate to drag someone else down with us!

T and M · November 21, 2008

By the way, I know there is this rule that my wife has to leave the US within 45 days of her oath. Will the officer ask for proof of this at the interview? Right now, we have a flight for 5 April. This means that if the interview takes place before 25 February, our flight plans will show 50-55 days before we are planning on leaving the states again?

This is very premature, since we haven't received our interview letter yet...but does anyone have any thoughts? Did the officers ask you guys for proof that you would be joining your USC spouse abroad within 45 days?

mnbinth · November 21, 2008

That's one of the big questions I hope to get answered at our interview whenever it is...

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N-400 Expedited Naturalization 319b Information

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