PRIVACY VIOLATIONS

[FormerConOff 0]

I've already posted a couple places in this section. I am a former HCMC consular officer (long enough ago that I no longer know anyone who works there, so please don't ask about that). Although I generally prefer not to comment on individual cases I see here on VJ, I feel compelled to say something here, because it speaks to an issue I have with "evidence" in general.

The posts I've seen by ChuckAndKim tend to be the most spot-on when it comes to advice -- one would almost think this poster is a former consular officer as well. Maybe just a realist. But anyway...

I wouldn't bother editing anything...no consular officer whose been there more than 3 days is going to care what is written in there. If I were interviewing your fiance, I would be far more interested in the fact that you have learned to speak Vietnamese than any chat logs you may have. That shows a level of commitment that goes SO FAR beyond that of what the vast majority of fraudsters would ever do. Consular officers know how difficult it is to learn to speak VN. This would be far more persuasive to me than 2 suitcases full of chats and e-mails. If I were you I would make sure your fiance mentions it to the officer during the interview. Never be afraid to speak up about something that might show a special level of commitment by your spouse or fiance (and I'm not saying shoving 300 one-line e-mails under the window).

Don't get bogged down in the "how much evidence should I have" rut. The fraudulent cases all have far more evidence than you ever will -- they're paying upwards of $50,000 for a service provided by the visa fixers, and they damn well are going to get their money's worth. This means that officers must discount the importance of such "evidence" to a certain degree. That being said, if I see 3 heartfelt letters over the course of 2 years, that means more than a letter sent every day that says nothing but "Hi, how are you, talk to you next time."

Nothing -- no amount of paperwork, photos, etc -- will EVER take the place of your fiance or spouse being able to talk authoritatively about you. I was always suspicious of applicants who had reams of "evidence" but couldn't tell me the first thing about their fiances' lives in the U.S. To me it indicated that they never actually exchanged information about their lives -- just paperwork.

[CoolHand2x2y2z 0]

Many of us are pretty frustrated (or maybe it's just me).

You go to Mexico and you get into the US in the snap... [There's a hole as big as the outdoors there and they worry about individual cases to this extreme in Vietnam.]

Taiwanese come to Vietnam and BUY a Vietnamese spouse and get it all approved with no trouble. All the flights between Vietnam and Taiwan are full of these people and their relationships (it takes two to tango, so I don't blame the Taiwanese).

I don't know about the fake cases, but I do know that I've been sick to death of this whole process of trying to get my wife to America.

The system is MESSED up!

And it doesn't start and end at the consulate in Vietnam. It freaking took me 6 months just to get my NOA from Texas --maybe the illegal Mexicans are working there. If so, I understand the language barrier and I forgive them. Yeah, I sent the wrong fee originally, but I didn't need to wait another three months just to get a reply from the same jokers.

I'm sorry, but I have NO respect for any of this.

My chance to unite with my wife? Probably about 40%. But I'm not going to tell my wife that.

I could go on, but why bother...

Edited July 22, 2008 by 2x2y2z

[chuckandkim 0]

The posts I've seen by ChuckAndKim tend to be the most spot-on when it comes to advice -- one would almost think this poster is a former consular officer as well. Maybe just a realist. But anyway...

First, thank you

Second, You caught me, FormerConOff! I am a realist...

Visa Interview vs. Job Interview: Same process different benefit!

People submit their resumes and job application to apply for a job that pays a lot of money (more than what they have right now)

vs.

People submit their relationship evidences to tell the C.O. their "love story" and application to apply for a Visa to be with their soulmate/lover/husband/wife (a lot of love to be making )

HR Staff review the resume, make sure all job application are filled out and qualify for an interview. Make sure everything is good and up to date per JOB DESCRIPTION REQUIREMENT. Before the interviewee is invited to come in for a FACE to FACE interview, they are recommded to be consider for the position or need further investigationg.

vs.

Vietnamese Staff review Visa Pentitioner's case/evidence/application. Make sure everything is in order or what isn't! Then issue blue/green/white or whatever paper color of the day is, insert in the file. Present to the C.O. with recommendation: need to delay, or deny. Now, just need to have a face-to-face to confirm their conclusion on the outcome of your case.

Hiring Manager conducts a FACE-To-Face interview with the candidate for the position. With the information the HR Staff already gave him. He will need to confirm his guts feeling and make his decision within the first 10 seconds. Yes, first impression is everything people! Hand out: Thank you for coming, we'll be intouch! or "When can you start"

vs.

C.O. : Got the informaton from V.S., let's trust mey guts feeling and make sure this won't take long for I still have 20 cases to go through today. 5 mins max, or maybe 10. If in doubt, I'll just delay. Always: Say NO first, cuz' you can always say YES later! If I say yes now, she gets the visa, come to the US and later they find out they are frauds, to late to fix! Question #1: Are they a REAL couple who truely want to get marry when I issue their Visa or just want to come to America and open up more nailsalon?

Job Offer: You got the job, Welcome to our company, to our team

vs.

Pink Slip / Visa in hand: You're approved, Welcome to America, to our Team USA

Simple? No, it's not! But you all sign up for this JOB/INTERVIEW at your own willl, nobody sticks a gun in your head to apply for this job/visa. Remember: you want what C.O. Got, just need ton convince him! C.O. doesn't owe you anything!

[FormerConOff 0]

A lot of people who have gone the K1/CR1 route (not just in Vietnam) are pretty fed up with the system. And speaking as the person on the other side of the window, I agree that it's a pretty blunt tool to be using to determine the fate of married couples.

One thing I almost never see on this site, however, is real-life suggestions on how to make a better process. Can anyone make any suggestions to improve/overhaul the system that would actually continue to weed out fraud but not be so antagonistic to those of you engaged in real relationships?

[chuckandkim 0]

Can't fight the system? Join it!

[FormerConOff 0]

ChuckandKim has made a somewhat apt analogy to the job interview. While not exactly the same, there are clearly some parallels.

I have read many entries here regarding how the applicants have "answered questions correctly and submitted all the required documents," but still didn't get a visa. If that were only enough.

Too many visa applicants follow the BAD advice of visa "consultants" (or some websites) and come into interviews with scripted answers. During my days as an interviewer, I wasn't so much interested in the "correctness" of your answer, but rather how much it demonstrated your actual personal knowledge of your spouses/fiance(e)s. For example, I used to throw in some unexpected questions. Instead of asking how they met (come on...what fraudulent visa applicant can't make up something that works with *that* question), I'd say, "tell me about your husband's relationship with his parents....do they get along?" If that didn't get me anywhere, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and ask another question, such as, "what does your husband like to do with his kids?" If I asked 3 or 4 of these questions, and got nothing but "I don't know," I wasn't impressed, EVEN if the applicant could recite his fiancee's mailing address down to the 9-digit ZIP code. Some things you can't fake.

Too much coaching for a visa interview can be a bad thing. One thing all the fraudsters have in common is that they've memorized what they are going to say at the interview. If you join their club, you only make it more difficult to tell you apart from them. At that point, all the "evidence" in the world doesn't really amount to much. Because if you display zero knowledge of your spouse, it really makes a consular officer wonder what those 3 years of phone bills are really all about. Don't coach, don't memorize. And one of the WORST pieces of advice I've seen on this board is "don't every say anything more than the most succinct answer to the question asked." Uh uh. If you've got 5 minutes of a consular officer's time, show him or her how much you know, not how little you can talk. Most consular officers do not enjoy their jobs; making them pull info out of people, hour after hour, day after day, is not a good way to distinguish yourself.

Again, please don't flame me for my observations -- they are not meant to excuse rude or unprofessional behavior among consulate and embassy staff around the world. I am just trying to give some constructive advice to those of you who care to take it. If you disagree with me or disagree with the system (as most of us do), please do not take it out on me.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

You give good advice. What you say is well thought. However, do you understand that the reputation CO's have is downright frightening to the Vietnamese people who are hoping for a visa? Most who go for an interview are terrified because of what they have heard. Imagine falling in love with a foreigner and wanting to spend your life with that person, but you know that one mistake or misunderstanding at the interview can result in a big fat NO and that means months or even years of pain.

My wife wasn't nervous. She was fine going in, chatty and in a great mood. She was also the only one. All the girls waiting for their interview were asking her why she was so calm. They thought maybe she was on drugs or had been drinking. No, she just doesn't get nervous.

But she is an exception. She told me how some girls were shaking and one girl was actually crying she was so scared.

And let me point out that there are exceptionally rude people you have to deal with before getting to the CO and that can include the translator. Time and time again the translator seems to have an agenda.

The CO should always ask one question first: "Do you want to have the interview in English?" That would solve many problems because the translator can they be taken out of the mix.

Anyway, I have had my say. My girl came here two years ago this month. We were married a month after she arrived and are living in NYC, about to move into a house on the beach (kinda far from the city, so the commute will suck, but so what?!). We're doing OK. We're together.

But we were lucky. Most are not.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Matt_Stevens