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[Alhamdulillah 0]

''The dog, the ###, and woman interrupt prayer if they pass in front of a believer, interposing themselves between him and the qibla'' (Mernissi 2003: 64).

What about the other sahih ahadeeth that confirm a woman, donkey or black dog (not any dog) invalidates the prayer if they pass in front of the sutra?

it's been my understanding that this one from bukhari is held to be more authentic and provides clarity.

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."

490, 491, 492, and 494 all pretty much say the same as well.

Hmmm that's interesting. I haven't heard that one. I'd like to see an article from a scholar that discusses all of these ahadeeth. I thought I read somewhere that it was a menstrating woman that invalidates the prayer but I can't find anything about that now. The other ahadeeth say a black dog and that a black dog is different than a dog of another color (meaning it's only the black dog that invalidates the prayer) Allahu 'alim.

[April and Mohamed 0]

''The dog, the ###, and woman interrupt prayer if they pass in front of a believer, interposing themselves between him and the qibla'' (Mernissi 2003: 64).

What about the other sahih ahadeeth that confirm a woman, donkey or black dog (not any dog) invalidates the prayer if they pass in front of the sutra?

it's been my understanding that this one from bukhari is held to be more authentic and provides clarity.

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."

490, 491, 492, and 494 all pretty much say the same as well.

Hmmm that's interesting. I haven't heard that one. I'd like to see an article from a scholar that discusses all of these ahadeeth. I thought I read somewhere that it was a menstrating woman that invalidates the prayer but I can't find anything about that now. The other ahadeeth say a black dog and that a black dog is different than a dog of another color (meaning it's only the black dog that invalidates the prayer) Allahu 'alim.

Yeah, here's a link to those ahadith, the University of Southern California has a whole collection of texts and 3 translations of the Quran, and you can search specific words in the Quran and hadith!

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...tml#001.009.493

It's a great resource! That "menstruating woman" part sounds like some of the old Jewish superstitions and even Native American superstitions, I know many tribes isolated their women during menstruation. And one of those hadith under number 493 will say that one of the wives of the Prophet would lay in bed during her period while the Prophet was standing up praying next to her, so I don't think a woman's period has anything to do with anyone else's prayer, just that she herself may not pray. And what a mercy that is!

[Alhamdulillah 0]

''The dog, the ###, and woman interrupt prayer if they pass in front of a believer, interposing themselves between him and the qibla'' (Mernissi 2003: 64).

What about the other sahih ahadeeth that confirm a woman, donkey or black dog (not any dog) invalidates the prayer if they pass in front of the sutra?

it's been my understanding that this one from bukhari is held to be more authentic and provides clarity.

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."

490, 491, 492, and 494 all pretty much say the same as well.

Hmmm that's interesting. I haven't heard that one. I'd like to see an article from a scholar that discusses all of these ahadeeth. I thought I read somewhere that it was a menstrating woman that invalidates the prayer but I can't find anything about that now. The other ahadeeth say a black dog and that a black dog is different than a dog of another color (meaning it's only the black dog that invalidates the prayer) Allahu 'alim.

Yeah, here's a link to those ahadith, the University of Southern California has a whole collection of texts and 3 translations of the Quran, and you can search specific words in the Quran and hadith!

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...tml#001.009.493

It's a great resource! That "menstruating woman" part sounds like some of the old Jewish superstitions and even Native American superstitions, I know many tribes isolated their women during menstruation. And one of those hadith under number 493 will say that one of the wives of the Prophet would lay in bed during her period while the Prophet was standing up praying next to her, so I don't think a woman's period has anything to do with anyone else's prayer, just that she herself may not pray. And what a mercy that is!

There's a difference between being next to and crossing in front of a person while they're praying. There is nothing in Islam that says a woman has to be isolated while menstrating.

[HLM 1]

I know that a dog invalidates the wudu if its drool touches u or what u re wearing and must do wudu all over again and wear something different.

Also no isolation for women during their menstruation since there is a hadith where it says the prophet sala Allah 3alayhi wassalam used to put his head on Aisha radya Allahu 3anha's lap and recite quran.

I dont know how can i get those hadiths in English but im sure of them coz i have the books here but they re in arabic.

[sandinista! 1,816]

''The dog, the ###, and woman interrupt prayer if they pass in front of a believer, interposing themselves between him and the qibla'' (Mernissi 2003: 64).

What about the other sahih ahadeeth that confirm a woman, donkey or black dog (not any dog) invalidates the prayer if they pass in front of the sutra?

it's been my understanding that this one from bukhari is held to be more authentic and provides clarity.

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."

490, 491, 492, and 494 all pretty much say the same as well.

Hmmm that's interesting. I haven't heard that one. I'd like to see an article from a scholar that discusses all of these ahadeeth. I thought I read somewhere that it was a menstrating woman that invalidates the prayer but I can't find anything about that now. The other ahadeeth say a black dog and that a black dog is different than a dog of another color (meaning it's only the black dog that invalidates the prayer) Allahu 'alim.

Yeah, here's a link to those ahadith, the University of Southern California has a whole collection of texts and 3 translations of the Quran, and you can search specific words in the Quran and hadith!

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...tml#001.009.493

It's a great resource! That "menstruating woman" part sounds like some of the old Jewish superstitions and even Native American superstitions, I know many tribes isolated their women during menstruation. And one of those hadith under number 493 will say that one of the wives of the Prophet would lay in bed during her period while the Prophet was standing up praying next to her, so I don't think a woman's period has anything to do with anyone else's prayer, just that she herself may not pray. And what a mercy that is!

There's a difference between being next to and crossing in front of a person while they're praying. There is nothing in Islam that says a woman has to be isolated while menstrating.

i think she's talking about a different hadith, about a different subject. i don't think anyone is comparing being next to and crossing in front of someone. aisha's talks about herself laying in bed between the prophet while he was praying and the qibla. the one april is talking about above is from bukhari again- Volume 1, Book 9, Number 497:

Narrated Maimuna:

The Prophet used to pray while I used to sleep beside him during my periods (menses) and in prostrations his garment used to touch me.

[April and Mohamed 0]

''The dog, the ###, and woman interrupt prayer if they pass in front of a believer, interposing themselves between him and the qibla'' (Mernissi 2003: 64).

What about the other sahih ahadeeth that confirm a woman, donkey or black dog (not any dog) invalidates the prayer if they pass in front of the sutra?

it's been my understanding that this one from bukhari is held to be more authentic and provides clarity.

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."

490, 491, 492, and 494 all pretty much say the same as well.

Hmmm that's interesting. I haven't heard that one. I'd like to see an article from a scholar that discusses all of these ahadeeth. I thought I read somewhere that it was a menstrating woman that invalidates the prayer but I can't find anything about that now. The other ahadeeth say a black dog and that a black dog is different than a dog of another color (meaning it's only the black dog that invalidates the prayer) Allahu 'alim.

Yeah, here's a link to those ahadith, the University of Southern California has a whole collection of texts and 3 translations of the Quran, and you can search specific words in the Quran and hadith!

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...tml#001.009.493

It's a great resource! That "menstruating woman" part sounds like some of the old Jewish superstitions and even Native American superstitions, I know many tribes isolated their women during menstruation. And one of those hadith under number 493 will say that one of the wives of the Prophet would lay in bed during her period while the Prophet was standing up praying next to her, so I don't think a woman's period has anything to do with anyone else's prayer, just that she herself may not pray. And what a mercy that is!

There's a difference between being next to and crossing in front of a person while they're praying. There is nothing in Islam that says a woman has to be isolated while menstrating.

i think she's talking about a different hadith, about a different subject. i don't think anyone is comparing being next to and crossing in front of someone. aisha's talks about herself laying in bed between the prophet while he was praying and the qibla. the one april is talking about above is from bukhari again- Volume 1, Book 9, Number 497:

Narrated Maimuna:

The Prophet used to pray while I used to sleep beside him during my periods (menses) and in prostrations his garment used to touch me.

Yeah, I was saying the Jews and Native Americans and other civilizations used to isolate the women but that doesn't happen in Islam, because someone mentioned they heard menstruating women invalidating a prayer. And the whole crossing in front of a person part is different, because anybody, male or female, is not supposed to cross in front of a person praying, unless there's a sutra it seems. But I never learned anything about "sutras" while I was taking a course on prayer, that seems weird that it wasn't mentioned in this really detailed book we studied from. It's funny how people threw women in the same category as donkeys and dogs, but that Paradise is at the feet of mothers (who are WOMEN) That lets me know that the efforts to put women down is bid3a because it is contrary to Islam and the position that it gives women, which is better than any other religion in my opinion.

[nana_356 0]

I read that is it not permisable for a woman on her period to enter the mosque. Because she is un pure!

[Nagishkaw 510]

Sigh, here we go again with the interpretations of non-N8tive people including but not limited to anthropologists and historians who viewed SOME tribes isolation of women during their monthly cycle to mean that these women were unclean . The truth is , the woman's power is stronger during their periods so it may interfere with the powers for hunting and/ or medicine ceremonies. So, isolation protected these other powers.

[sandinista! 1,816]

I read that is it not permisable for a woman on her period to enter the mosque. Because she is un pure!

says who? from muslim:

Book 003, Number 0588:

'A'isha reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered me that I should get him the mat from the mosque. I said: I am menstruating. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Do get me that, for menstruation is not in your hand.

Book 003, Number 0589:

Abu Huraira reported: While the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was in the mosque, he said: O 'A'isha, get me that garment. She said: I am menstruating. Upon this he remarked: Your menstruation is not in your hand, and she, therefore, got him that.

i always took not praying at that time as just relaxing and getting a little bit more rest, as opposed to a "purity" issue, but that's just me.

[April and Mohamed 0]

Sigh, here we go again with the interpretations of non-N8tive people including but not limited to anthropologists and historians who viewed SOME tribes isolation of women during their monthly cycle to mean that these women were unclean . The truth is , the woman's power is stronger during their periods so it may interfere with the powers for hunting and/ or medicine ceremonies. So, isolation protected these other powers.

That's interesting, and I didn't know why they isolated them, just knew that they did (historical fiction books, you learn a lot!) Thanks for the explanation. So what "powers" are they talking about? If the women were stronger, wouldn't that have helped the hunting? Maybe not.

As far as being "unpure", that is an idea that is from pre-Islamic times and is based out of ignorance. Women don't pray and fast because they're "unpure" or "unclean," they avoid praying and fasting because menstruation is a hardship on women and we're given a break, not having to make up missed prayers, but missed Ramadan days need to be made up. That is one of the mercies from Allah swt, that we get a break during our period. No man ever has an excuse to not pray, ever, and I kind of feel bad for them in that regard. At least we get a "get out of jail free" card every month I'm not equating prayer with jail, lol, that's just the term most commonly used.

So here in Morocco, widows are confined to their homes, like literally confined, they can't go outside at all, for the idda period, 4 months and 10 days. Last time I checked that was totally contradictory to the Quran. Any words on that one? I know in Senegal they practice that too but strangely, the idda length they practice is 40 days. Seems like people are all over the place!

Btw does anyone know if Jews or Christians have specific "waiting" periods for widows? Just curious.

[doodlebugg 10]

I read that is it not permisable for a woman on her period to enter the mosque. Because she is un pure!

says who? from muslim:

Book 003, Number 0588:

'A'isha reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered me that I should get him the mat from the mosque. I said: I am menstruating. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Do get me that, for menstruation is not in your hand.

Book 003, Number 0589:

Abu Huraira reported: While the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was in the mosque, he said: O 'A'isha, get me that garment. She said: I am menstruating. Upon this he remarked: Your menstruation is not in your hand, and she, therefore, got him that.

i always took not praying at that time as just relaxing and getting a little bit more rest, as opposed to a "purity" issue, but that's just me.

I used to think it as getting rested too but then how come pregnant women are not exempt, you know? They get even more tired especially in that last trimester.

[April and Mohamed 0]

I read that is it not permisable for a woman on her period to enter the mosque. Because she is un pure!

says who? from muslim:

Book 003, Number 0588:

'A'isha reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered me that I should get him the mat from the mosque. I said: I am menstruating. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Do get me that, for menstruation is not in your hand.

Book 003, Number 0589:

Abu Huraira reported: While the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was in the mosque, he said: O 'A'isha, get me that garment. She said: I am menstruating. Upon this he remarked: Your menstruation is not in your hand, and she, therefore, got him that.

i always took not praying at that time as just relaxing and getting a little bit more rest, as opposed to a "purity" issue, but that's just me.

I used to think it as getting rested too but then how come pregnant women are not exempt, you know? They get even more tired especially in that last trimester.

That's a good question, but some women I've known were healthy as a horse the whole time and didn't get sick once. I'm hoping I could be as lucky. I realized my comment sort of made it sound like I was saying the 4 months and 10 days part was contradictory to the Quran, but I wasn't saying that, I was only saying the confinement part. But the 40 days in Senegal IS wrong, it's too short!

[nana_356 0]

I read that is it not permisable for a woman on her period to enter the mosque. Because she is un pure!

says who? from muslim:

Book 003, Number 0588:

'A'isha reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered me that I should get him the mat from the mosque. I said: I am menstruating. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Do get me that, for menstruation is not in your hand.

Book 003, Number 0589:

Abu Huraira reported: While the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was in the mosque, he said: O 'A'isha, get me that garment. She said: I am menstruating. Upon this he remarked: Your menstruation is not in your hand, and she, therefore, got him that.

i always took not praying at that time as just relaxing and getting a little bit more rest, as opposed to a "purity" issue, but that's just me.

This is from the website Islamtoday.com, Its a good site!

`Â’ishah relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him said: “I do not permit a woman in her menses or a person in a state of major ritual impurity into the mosque.” [sunan Abî Dâwûd, Sunan Ibn Mâjah, Sunan al-Bayhaqî, and Sahîh Ibn Khuzaymah]

There is a context for this hadîth. The Prophet (peace be upon him) observed that some of the homes of his Companions opened up onto the mosque. He said: “Reorient these homes so that they do not face the mosque.” He then entered the mosques without doing anything, hoping that a concession would be revealed to him. Later, he went out to them and said: “Reorient these homes so that they do not face the mosque, for I do not permit a woman in her menses or a person in a state of major ritual impurity into the mosque.”

[nana_356 0]

I read that is it not permisable for a woman on her period to enter the mosque. Because she is un pure!

says who? from muslim:

Book 003, Number 0588:

'A'isha reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered me that I should get him the mat from the mosque. I said: I am menstruating. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Do get me that, for menstruation is not in your hand.

Book 003, Number 0589:

Abu Huraira reported: While the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was in the mosque, he said: O 'A'isha, get me that garment. She said: I am menstruating. Upon this he remarked: Your menstruation is not in your hand, and she, therefore, got him that.

i always took not praying at that time as just relaxing and getting a little bit more rest, as opposed to a "purity" issue, but that's just me.

This is from the website Islamtoday.com, Its a good site!

`Â’ishah relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him said: “I do not permit a woman in her menses or a person in a state of major ritual impurity into the mosque.” [sunan Abî Dâwûd, Sunan Ibn Mâjah, Sunan al-Bayhaqî, and Sahîh Ibn Khuzaymah]

There is a context for this hadîth. The Prophet (peace be upon him) observed that some of the homes of his Companions opened up onto the mosque. He said: “Reorient these homes so that they do not face the mosque.” He then entered the mosques without doing anything, hoping that a concession would be revealed to him. Later, he went out to them and said: “Reorient these homes so that they do not face the mosque, for I do not permit a woman in her menses or a person in a state of major ritual impurity into the mosque.”

In the mosque I used to attend they had a different section, separate from the actual masjid for woman that are mestruating.

[Nasturtium 500]

Btw does anyone know if Jews or Christians have specific "waiting" periods for widows? Just curious.

No, they don't. It's left up to what is considered culturally appropriate. Many cultures in the past had a period which was considered approrpiate for mourning. Christians have no concrete law in the New Testament so would refer back to the Torah, and Jews have a slightly more concrete mourning set of rituals some of which are tradition or Talmud, although nothing is prescribed as a waiting period like in Islam in Torah:

http://www.jewfaq.org/death.htm

BTW, the idea of a menstruating woman being unclean in Torah is that she is unclean to enter the temple and those who come into contact with her (which would be her family) would be rendered unclean. This is not about her as a woman. It is about the issue of blood. If a man were to be bleeding, he would be considered unclean and if he is unclean all that he touches would be subject to the exact same rules for the duration of his uncleanliness. This is different than being impure in self. A woman is not impure, but is given a respite from her normal routine during this time. She and her husband are given a time in which to connect free from sexual time, through intimacy of conversation and gestures such as gifts, etc. She can still pray and can still commune with G-d, just not enter the temple and she is supposed to avoid (as is her family) family uncleanliness. This would be the same again if it were a man. It would also be the same if someone was to touch any of the unclean things such as dead animals, etc. The waiting period is different depending on what it is, but still ti renders one unclean. Women who are menstruating are also not required to announce their state as unclean as those who suffer from illness are, which is interesting. It is a private business. So this niddah (seperation) is not based on superstition but is based in the law given to Moses, and it is not something about women being impure, it is about the issue of blood. The general time is set at 7 days in the Torah. orthodox Jews add 7 more days believing that the 7 days starts when one is free from blood. If the blood continues beyond the normal time, then more time is added to it.