Muslims

[ya falaha! 0]

Not sure how accurate this Hadith is but I have heard of it before and looked it up to make sure. I'm not an expert on Islam in any way, shape or form but I've heard and read some things along my way. From what I know yes and no, lying is permitted to a certain extent and for "good" reasons. It's basic common sense if you think about it. Don't many of us lie to keep the peace or prevent ourselves from hurting someone? If someone looks awful, are we going to come out and say it if they ask? Not really. We'll tell a little white lie to get around it. Islam doesn't permit lying for malicious reasons. That's not to say that some Muslims don't use this Hadith to their advantage or take it the wrong way.

Sahih MuslimBook 032, Number 6303:

Humaid b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of 'Uqba b. Abu Mu'ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).

[Berber Mama 5]

Yeah I've heard that too. I read that if a man is confronted by his wife for adultery...he can lie and say "I swear on the Quran that it's not true" and that he can do this even if he IS guilty of adultery. He can say this in order to keep his family together and swearing on the Quran would not be held against him.

I don't remember which website I found it at but I do remember reading it. If anyone can verify or disprove it... I am all ears to hearing it.

[Staashi 371]

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the 1968 movie: A Guide for the Married Man - deny, deny, deny.

[Beth/ Paris Heart 2]

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the 1968 movie: A Guide for the Married Man - deny, deny, deny.

I wish there was a guide for the married woman, of what to do her husband whom she still very much loves and is a fool.

Wonder if Barnes & Nobles has that book?

[Ahmed N Tina 2]

I'm curious. My husband insists that he will NOT celebrate Thanksgiving cause it's not in the Quran and insists that it is a Christian holiday therefore not to be shared, etc. I'm so darn frustrated cause I see it as a day of being with family and I don't want to miss it, but he's being quite poopy about us not going. He's actually trying to wipe out any Christian holiday/celebration in our home that I see as National and not religious. Is he right? or is he just being ultra strict and unnecessary?

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Not sure how accurate this Hadith is but I have heard of it before and looked it up to make sure. I'm not an expert on Islam in any way, shape or form but I've heard and read some things along my way. From what I know yes and no, lying is permitted to a certain extent and for "good" reasons. It's basic common sense if you think about it. Don't many of us lie to keep the peace or prevent ourselves from hurting someone? If someone looks awful, are we going to come out and say it if they ask? Not really. We'll tell a little white lie to get around it. Islam doesn't permit lying for malicious reasons. That's not to say that some Muslims don't use this Hadith to their advantage or take it the wrong way.

Sahih MuslimBook 032, Number 6303:

Humaid b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of 'Uqba b. Abu Mu'ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).

The hadith is found in the collection of Sahih Muslim, which is generally considered to contain sound and accurate narrations from the Prophet (saws).

And you're right about the reasons for lying. I don't know if it would go so far as to cover adultry, since a lie in that would also cause harm to the wife, if the husband gets STDs and passes them on to her, among a myriad of other reasons. That would probably be an individual scholar's ijtihad, reasoning, and not something based specifically on the Qur'an and Sunnah (to the best of my knowledge).

Lying to save your life

Lying to cover up cheating in an exam

Is it permissible to lie to conceal one's good works?

[nurse1967 287]

Honestly I think that is the most hypocritical thing I may have ever heard in my life.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I'm curious. My husband insists that he will NOT celebrate Thanksgiving cause it's not in the Quran and insists that it is a Christian holiday therefore not to be shared, etc. I'm so darn frustrated cause I see it as a day of being with family and I don't want to miss it, but he's being quite poopy about us not going. He's actually trying to wipe out any Christian holiday/celebration in our home that I see as National and not religious. Is he right? or is he just being ultra strict and unnecessary?

Would he be willing to go the day after thanksgiving?

While there are some christian origins to the holiday, I don't think of it as a christian holiday. It was merely that the people to whom we trace back the tradition happened to be increadibly religious people, so that every celebration they did had religious underpinnings. It would kind of be like considering October 6th in Egypt to be a muslim holiday. Sure, the people who took part in it were originally muslim, and it's celebrated by muslims now, but it's a national holiday and in no way a religious festival.

[ya falaha! 0]

Hypocritical how? That lying is, sometimes, permissable? Don't we all lie? If anyone among us here has NEVER told a lie I want them to step forward. To hold Muslims to a higher standard than any other human is not right. Muslims are just as human as anyone else. Why is it ok for everyone in the world to tell a lie in order to save someone from hurt but when Islam permits it, it's hypocritical and wrong? I would say that lying to cover adultery would be VERY wrong and I really don't believe that is what the particular hadith I posted was talking about. Like I said in my prior post, yes, some Muslims do misinterpret the Quran and Hadith to their advantage. That doesn't mean it's right. Honestly, if you want to dig into any religion you can find things that are unsavory. I'm not sure why some choose to think badly about Islam because of a certain Hadith that covers the topic of lying. Quran and Hadith cover topics of all aspects of life. Lying and deceit can be two different things. Islam does not make it ok for ppl to be deceitful nor does it make it permissable for ppl to lie in order to harm someone. For those who are unfamiliar with Islam please take things more easy. It's not nearly as bad as we make it in our own minds. I would suggest to those who are unfamiliar to pick up some books on Islam to familiarize yourselves with the religion. I would recommend the books "Teach Yourself Islam" by Ruqaiyyah Maqsood and "Morals and Manners in Islam: A Guide to Islamic Adab" by Marwan Ibrahim Al-Kaysi. I own both of these books and they are quite informative.

Edited November 24, 2009 by ya falaha!

[Safiya&Samir 0]

I don't view Thanksgiving as a religious holiday. Honestly, the whole thing with holidays is annoying to me. There's never anything haram about spending time with your family and enjoying a good meal. Is there?

[ya falaha! 0]

Agreed. I view Thanksgiving as a national holiday not a religious holiday. I feel that making things such as national holidays "haram" is just making the religion to strict and difficult to adhere to. Why make things harder than they have to be?

I don't view Thanksgiving as a religious holiday. Honestly, the whole thing with holidays is annoying to me. There's never anything haram about spending time with your family and enjoying a good meal. Is there?

[nurse1967 287]

Well it just strikes me as weird that a religion would ever "OK" lying. I am not saying that people do it every day to prevent hurting someone's feelings or things like that. I just feel that for a religion to sanction it is strange.

[me_4_musa 1]

Don't we all lie? If anyone among us here has NEVER told a lie I want them to step forward.

No, I never lie.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I think it's incorrect to interpret it that islam sanctions lying. In all but a very few circumstances, it's considered a major sin.

One of the things I love about this religion is that it's the middle way. It's neither pacifistic nor militaristic. If I may quasi quote Ecclesiastes - there is a time for war, and a time for peace. Likewise, there is a (very very very limited) time for lying and a (majority of the) time for telling the truth.

When scholars make a ruling, they look at all sources of the law - the Qur'an, the sunnah and the opinions and rulings of the scholars who came before them. They would see from the hadith that ya fallaha quoted that yes, it's permissible in limited circumstances. They would further see that there are a bunch of hadith that condemn lying:

The Messenger of Allah (saws) said: "Lying is improper whether in earnest or in jest, even if any one of you promises his child something and does not fulfill his promise." (Al-Adab al-Mufrad and Sunan Abu Dawud).

The Messenger of Allah (saws) said, "Whoever cheats is not of us." (Sahih Muslim, Sunan Tirmidhi, Sunan Abi Dawud and others)

So that if something is in a very limited situation permissible, that doesn't make it something good to do. Rather, it's more along the lines of something permissible, but disliked.

[Ahmed N Tina 2]

At first he was willing to go on Friday, but then he realized that Friday is Eid and said no, they can come to us on our holiday. I told him that was stupid, why would they come to us if we don't go to them. We got into it last night again cause I told him he's making it all too hard and just about rules and how HE interprets them. I'm really frustrated! I don't think of it as a religious holiday either, nor does anyone I've talked to. But I can't get that through his thick Egyptian head! I told him at one point, I'll go alone. He put his foot down and said no, it's not your holiday, you can't. Last I checked I'm still American, so it IS my holiday. And I know plenty of Muslims who are "celebrating" it. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR