Illegal Immigrant - He's Canadian!

[Delicia 1]

Making assumptions about people's situations also hurts everyone.

I guess you need to clarify what assumptions are being made with my statement? I R confused....

You assume all illegal aliens don't pay taxes. A lot do. I don't endorse using other people's social security numbers, but if they are doing it that way or through an ITIN, many illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Many forgo health care that they need desperately, not all are crowding into the local ER at the earliest sign of a problem. You assume that they haven't been separated from their families. Most of the illegal immigrants I've known have been separated from their families with no end in sight. Yes, it's decision, but it doesn't mean it's easy. I don't support illegal immigration but the system as a whole is broken. If they didn't have a reason to come (employment), most wouldn't.

So while illegal immigration does hurt, I wouldn't say it hurts everyone all of the time. Illegal immigration isn't the source of all that is wrong with the world. The politicians who have their hands in corporate America's pocket...I have an easier time blaming them.

1) I still stand by MOST illegals do not pay income taxes. Most work for cash and certainly do not file an income tax return reporting all their income to the U.S. government. The vast majority would, however, pay tax in the form of sales tax (except in the case of the article because OR is a sales tax free state). Sales tax is a no where near the revenue generator for states like income tax is. Not to mention there is no comparable federal sales tax.

2) I didn't mention anything about healthcare.

3) The illegals I have met in both the U.S. and in Canada were via my husband who works in the construction industry. The vast majority of them were from Central and South America and they chose to leave their families behind to work 'temporarily' in the U.S. and Canada and they lived below the poverty level while working and they did send their money 'home' where they saved up to buy property (e.g. land) so when they returned, either voluntarily or forcibly, they would have something to go 'home' to. There is really little benefit to the host country in these cases.

3) I still stand by my statement that illegal immigration is harmful. In my case, it is a direct cause of my insurance premiums being increased. Others feel the harm in indirect ways. Increases in taxes to support school systems, health care, public libraries, etc. These are paid by the property owners and income tax paying employed individuals who foot the bill for those that use these services and don't pay a dime for it. While I agree the system is broken, it is a two fold problem. It has to be 'fixed' so that people pursuing legal immigration do not have to wait years (as in the case of skilled worker type applications) and the illegal problem would be minimized through attrition.

4) If you don't like Corporate America, all I can say this is a market driven economy and always has been. This structure goes back to the inception of this country and more obviously, since the industrial age and it is nothing new. Corporate American can do things cheaper and faster than any public government entity. Capitalism is the name of the game here, end of story.

[Krikit 1,163]

What I thought was interesting in the article is that no one's screaming about him because he's not Hispanic. And that they're seeing that while he's illegal, he hasn't been a drain on public resources. I think the guy's an ####### for flaunting his flouting of the law, but I can't see this article being written in the same tone if he were from Mexico.

The screamers will be here shortly.

[athena_ny 1]

Making assumptions about people's situations also hurts everyone.

I guess you need to clarify what assumptions are being made with my statement? I R confused....

You assume all illegal aliens don't pay taxes. A lot do. I don't endorse using other people's social security numbers, but if they are doing it that way or through an ITIN, many illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Many forgo health care that they need desperately, not all are crowding into the local ER at the earliest sign of a problem. You assume that they haven't been separated from their families. Most of the illegal immigrants I've known have been separated from their families with no end in sight. Yes, it's decision, but it doesn't mean it's easy. I don't support illegal immigration but the system as a whole is broken. If they didn't have a reason to come (employment), most wouldn't.

So while illegal immigration does hurt, I wouldn't say it hurts everyone all of the time. Illegal immigration isn't the source of all that is wrong with the world. The politicians who have their hands in corporate America's pocket...I have an easier time blaming them.

1) I still stand by MOST illegals do not pay income taxes. Most work for cash and certainly do not file an income tax return reporting all their income to the U.S. government. The vast majority would, however, pay tax in the form of sales tax (except in the case of the article because OR is a sales tax free state). Sales tax is a no where near the revenue generator for states like income tax is. Not to mention there is no comparable federal sales tax.

2) I didn't mention anything about healthcare.

3) The illegals I have met in both the U.S. and in Canada were via my husband who works in the construction industry. The vast majority of them were from Central and South America and they chose to leave their families behind to work 'temporarily' in the U.S. and Canada and they lived below the poverty level while working and they did send their money 'home' where they saved up to buy property (e.g. land) so when they returned, either voluntarily or forcibly, they would have something to go 'home' to. There is really little benefit to the host country in these cases.

3) I still stand by my statement that illegal immigration is harmful. In my case, it is a direct cause of my insurance premiums being increased. Others feel the harm in indirect ways. Increases in taxes to support school systems, health care, public libraries, etc. These are paid by the property owners and income tax paying employed individuals who foot the bill for those that use these services and don't pay a dime for it. While I agree the system is broken, it is a two fold problem. It has to be 'fixed' so that people pursuing legal immigration do not have to wait years (as in the case of skilled worker type applications) and the illegal problem would be minimized through attrition.

4) If you don't like Corporate America, all I can say this is a market driven economy and always has been. This structure goes back to the inception of this country and more obviously, since the industrial age and it is nothing new. Corporate American can do things cheaper and faster than any public government entity. Capitalism is the name of the game here, end of story.

[trailmix 77]

No, it isn't written the way it would be written if the article were about a Mexican illegal immigrant - then again maybe it would be, can't really speak for the author.

The whole illegal scenario in the U.S. is so clouded by bias, ignorance and racism that I think a lot of people have a hard time having an intelligent dialogue about it. That is wrong. Not saying all do.

Edited February 21, 2008 by trailmix

[rebeccajo 14]

What I thought was interesting in the article is that no one's screaming about him because he's not Hispanic. And that they're seeing that while he's illegal, he hasn't been a drain on public resources. I think the guy's an ####### for flaunting his flouting of the law, but I can't see this article being written in the same tone if he were from Mexico.

I totally agree.

Yup. That's the real point of the article I think. Here's a few of the quotes I found interesting:

"But whether lawmakers are talking about opposing work sites for Portland day laborers, requiring Social Security cards for Oregon drivers or building fences to curb the flow of illegal immigrants to the United States from Mexico, Morgan’s presence in this country is both a confirmation of the failures of U.S. current immigration policies and a testament to the absurdity of attempts to change them. The immigration debate in this country is, in fact, no longer a debate. It’s a three-ring circus with a very crowded clown car. "

...and this....

"According to the Pew Hispanic Center, nearly half of all undocumented immigrants entered the United States lawfully but have overstayed their business or tourist visas, which calls into question the wisdom of the plan to build a higher and longer wall along this country’s southern border."

...this...

"Meanwhile, the fury grows over what some people call a problem and others see as an opportunity. Portlanders will continue to fight about the appropriateness of building a site for day laborers, many of whom are here illegally. Oregonians will push their battle over identification cards to the next front: the fight over the implementation in Salem of the federal REAL ID Act, which imposes stricter nationwide standards on driver’s licensing programs. And Americans, including several presidential candidates, will carry on in their efforts to builder bigger, tougher, more expensive walls along the southern border. "

...and whether or not you agree with Morgan in particular being here, lastly there is this....

"But his friend Eric Roser says Morgan's dreams could be satisfied in Canada.œIt really comes down to the fact that he wants to be here", Roser says.œDoes it mean he has any less right to be there than, say, a refugee? Yes. But does it mean he shouldn't be here? I don't think so. I think there's room enough for him."

Edited February 21, 2008 by rebeccajo

[rebeccajo 14]

.........3) I still stand by my statement that illegal immigration is harmful. In my case, it is a direct cause of my insurance premiums being increased. Others feel the harm in indirect ways. Increases in taxes to support school systems, health care, public libraries, etc. These are paid by the property owners and income tax paying employed individuals who foot the bill for those that use these services and don't pay a dime for it. While I agree the system is broken, it is a two fold problem. It has to be 'fixed' so that people pursuing legal immigration do not have to wait years (as in the case of skilled worker type applications) and the illegal problem would be minimized through attrition......

Delicia -

What 'skilled worker applications' are you referring too? There are currently no visa types for Joe Carpenter or Ben Bricklayer to come to the US. The only skilled workers I am aware of who can get visas are the "highly skilled" such as IT experts, engineers, etc. Migrant workers have a visa class. But the skilled tradesman does not.

[john & jean 37]

That guy is the most selfish butthole in the world, I can't believe anyone would find his story funny? People from other countries are persecuted beyond belief and most don't manage to escape, but the few that do go through years of immigration ####### while this moron breaks the law. I wish they'd find him, jail him for the length of time he's been in the States illegally then charge him for the time he just spent in jail, and liquidate the company's assets that employs him into a public trust that helps refugees get off to a better start.

This kind of stuff TOTALLY pushes me to the worst kind of anger, and I have NO idea how anyone could joke about this.

I agree, you should run for any public office,guaranteed landslide. It is a shame the judges let people like the marriage scammer of so easy.

[Delicia 1]

.........3) I still stand by my statement that illegal immigration is harmful. In my case, it is a direct cause of my insurance premiums being increased. Others feel the harm in indirect ways. Increases in taxes to support school systems, health care, public libraries, etc. These are paid by the property owners and income tax paying employed individuals who foot the bill for those that use these services and don't pay a dime for it. While I agree the system is broken, it is a two fold problem. It has to be 'fixed' so that people pursuing legal immigration do not have to wait years (as in the case of skilled worker type applications) and the illegal problem would be minimized through attrition......

Delicia -

What 'skilled worker applications' are you referring too? There are currently no visa types for Joe Carpenter or Ben Bricklayer to come to the US. The only skilled workers I am aware of who can get visas are the "highly skilled" such as IT experts, engineers, etc. Migrant workers have a visa class. But the skilled tradesman does not.

EB-3 Skilled or professional workers

Foreign national professionals with bachelor's degrees (not qualifying for a higher preference category)

Foreign national skilled workers (minimum two years training and experience)

Foreign national unskilled workers

Additionally, there is the diversity lottery for those in qualifying countries.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Delicia

[Flames9_RN 358]

Time to switch things around!! Anyone up for a Timmys??

[Krikit 1,163]

Time to switch things around!! Anyone up for a Timmys??

Yes! A good caffeine hit to get the adrenaline going. lol

[trailmix 77]

Time to switch things around!! Anyone up for a Timmys??

Yes! A good caffeine hit to get the adrenaline going. lol

Hot chocolate would be really good right about now.

[Flames9_RN 358]

Mint choco for me!!!

[Krikit 1,163]

I'll take mine with an orange shot!

[rebeccajo 14]

My fave is a cafe mocha! Yum - made a run past Timmie's for one today whilst I was out making the payroll deposit.

Delicia -

The various categories under the EB-3 Employment based immigrant visa are:

EB-3(A): This category is for professional worker with a U.S. bachelor's or foreign equivalent degree and with a job offer from a U.S. company .

EB-3(B): This category is for skilled workers for positions that require at least two years of training or experience and with a job offer from a U.S. company .

EB-3©: This category is for unskilled workers for positions that require less than two years training or experience and with a job offer from a U.S. company .

So if a carpenter or a bricklayer has a job offer, he can get a visa. But if he just wants to come to America to ply his skills in hope of making a better life for himself (as immigrants did ala Ellis Island) that option doesn't exist.

Edited February 22, 2008 by rebeccajo

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

What I thought was interesting in the article is that no one's screaming about him because he's not Hispanic. And that they're seeing that while he's illegal, he hasn't been a drain on public resources. I think the guy's an ####### for flaunting his flouting of the law, but I can't see this article being written in the same tone if he were from Mexico.

The screamers will be here shortly.

What'd I miss?