"Uk" Waiver club 601/212, List for uk waivers sign up!

[mary&tom 0]

Got out our paperwork and guess what? The court report that we have is the Memorandum of Conviction. It lists the fine and court costs and says discount given for guilty plea. It also states the charge.. and that is the problem... it says "a quantity of cannabis resin... etc." It does not include anything that was said in court... just that he pled guilty and consented to a summary trial. So according to this he pled guilty to the exporting charge but it was distinctly stated in court that he was pleading guilty to personal possession. Unless there is a record of that somewhere else, I don't see how we can take this any further.

As I have said before, when he wrote back to the court to ask for those details.. the amount and the fact that it was treated as personal possession, they said they had no further information on record.

mary

[pax 0]

*sigh*

*hug*

[MistyB 0]

I hope things work out for you Mary. This is really silly and unfair!

Paul, Nigel is probably on his way to the US..he never did give a departure date come to think of it!

[jpkeswim 0]

MistyB--

I just noticed that you received all the passports on Monday. Congrats and I hope your journeys back to the states work out! Now we are still waiting on the phone call from the Embassy. Still haven't heard anything.

Mary -- You and Tom are in our prayers.

Talk to all later....

[cmltdg 0]

Hey, Paul, no I didn't receive any rude email. The guy that we emailed my clarifying letter to emailed me back and said after he's done with it it has to go to some other guy who will handle it or some such and send it on to USCIS and that should take about a week to two weeks. That was last Wednesday when I got that email. So now I'm wondering if that online tracking thing is a good idea ... for me! Now I can obsessively check it every week. I just looked at it again this morning and there we are listed as being in the system on 3/6, so let the countdown begin! I hope it flies by. I'm just trying to think on the positive side how these last three months have flown by.

Anyway, I'm still hoping good things for you, Mary. I guess there was no court reporter taking down the proceedings? That's really odd, especially in a criminal proceeding. I'm a court reporter and I know we have to keep our notes even, if they're never transcribed, for ten years. I've gotten orders for proceedings to be transcribed seven years later!

Have a great day, all!

Tiff

[rebeccajo 14]

Regarding MaryandTom:

I asked around the law office here about how things are handled when someone is picked up with a small amount of cannabis. I am told that the police report would show the amount. The amount in question would determine whether or not it is a misdemeanor or felony. From there of course there are various and assundry charges which could be filed.

What you have in this case are a myriad of factors complicated by the border crossing. Chalk it up to 'bad lawyering' or whatever you like that the improper charge was filed. The fact that Tom was frightened at the time or bullied is also irrelevant. It may have mattered at the time, and it may be a miscarriage of justice, but IT HAPPENED - it's really rather pointless to go on and on about how unfair it was. It's also unfair to blame the US government for interpreting a record that was produced by the UK juris system, is it not?

The onus is and always has been on the petitioner to prove their case. My opinion - Joe Smith, layperson in the street, cannot successfully overturn this denial. It would take competent counsel to sift through this. Plus to take the emotion out of it. This has to be fought with facts, not cries of 'foul'.

As to record keeping, in the US, possession of drugs in small quantity would probably be heard in magistrate court where there is no court reporter. So the COURT RECORD might not show the amount, but as I stated above, the police report would.

Tom was crossing the border - does customs have a record of the amount? And even if the amount can be ascertained, who is going to prove that the charge was improper? Do you see why I am saying that this will take more to overturn than any of us here are capable of?

I am only trying to hash this down to the simple facts, which is what will be necessary if Mary and Tom decide to take this further.

[pax 0]

[shakysgirl 1]

Dear Mary and Tom,

I haven't been on visajourney too much lately, but I did check into the waivers forum today to see how you were doing and was very distressed to see your news. I am thinking of you and sending you my thoughts and love. I don't know what else to say just know people support you and think of you. Take care and hope things work out for you in the long run.

[mary&tom 0]

Regarding MaryandTom:

I asked around the law office here about how things are handled when someone is picked up with a small amount of cannabis. I am told that the police report would show the amount. The amount in question would determine whether or not it is a misdemeanor or felony. From there of course there are various and assundry charges which could be filed.

What you have in this case are a myriad of factors complicated by the border crossing. Chalk it up to 'bad lawyering' or whatever you like that the improper charge was filed. The fact that Tom was frightened at the time or bullied is also irrelevant. It may have mattered at the time, and it may be a miscarriage of justice, but IT HAPPENED - it's really rather pointless to go on and on about how unfair it was. It's also unfair to blame the US government for interpreting a record that was produced by the UK juris system, is it not?

The onus is and always has been on the petitioner to prove their case. My opinion - Joe Smith, layperson in the street, cannot successfully overturn this denial. It would take competent counsel to sift through this. Plus to take the emotion out of it. This has to be fought with facts, not cries of 'foul'.

As to record keeping, in the US, possession of drugs in small quantity would probably be heard in magistrate court where there is no court reporter. So the COURT RECORD might not show the amount, but as I stated above, the police report would.

Tom was crossing the border - does customs have a record of the amount? And even if the amount can be ascertained, who is going to prove that the charge was improper? Do you see why I am saying that this will take more to overturn than any of us here are capable of?

I am only trying to hash this down to the simple facts, which is what will be necessary if Mary and Tom decide to take this further.

sounds like we might as well just give up then. i had thought i could talk to the embassy about this because they did let us file the waiver... they did that on the grounds it would be treated as personal possession... i had hoped they could find out why it wasn't treated that way after supervisors had already been consulted to make sure we were ELIGIBLE to file. so now the denial states we are ineligible. i guess i won't bother to make any calls. probably out of time anyway.

anyone with any common sense can see that no actually trafficking offence would be handled in a magistrates court.. and receive a £100 fine.

i hate this.... tom is working 2pm today til 7am tomorrow morning. you think this is the life i want for him? that would never happen in the usa.

mary

[rebeccajo 14]

Regarding MaryandTom:

I asked around the law office here about how things are handled when someone is picked up with a small amount of cannabis. I am told that the police report would show the amount. The amount in question would determine whether or not it is a misdemeanor or felony. From there of course there are various and assundry charges which could be filed.

What you have in this case are a myriad of factors complicated by the border crossing. Chalk it up to 'bad lawyering' or whatever you like that the improper charge was filed. The fact that Tom was frightened at the time or bullied is also irrelevant. It may have mattered at the time, and it may be a miscarriage of justice, but IT HAPPENED - it's really rather pointless to go on and on about how unfair it was. It's also unfair to blame the US government for interpreting a record that was produced by the UK juris system, is it not?

The onus is and always has been on the petitioner to prove their case. My opinion - Joe Smith, layperson in the street, cannot successfully overturn this denial. It would take competent counsel to sift through this. Plus to take the emotion out of it. This has to be fought with facts, not cries of 'foul'.

As to record keeping, in the US, possession of drugs in small quantity would probably be heard in magistrate court where there is no court reporter. So the COURT RECORD might not show the amount, but as I stated above, the police report would.

Tom was crossing the border - does customs have a record of the amount? And even if the amount can be ascertained, who is going to prove that the charge was improper? Do you see why I am saying that this will take more to overturn than any of us here are capable of?

I am only trying to hash this down to the simple facts, which is what will be necessary if Mary and Tom decide to take this further.

sounds like we might as well just give up then........

i hate this.... tom is working 2pm today til 7am tomorrow morning. you think this is the life i want for him? that would never happen in the usa.

mary

Your case may be defensable, but in my opinion, only in the hands of competent counsel and it will take some time. If you really want to live in the US there may be a way but I truly believe it is simply above the skill level of a layperson.

And yes, I do think men working those kind of hours happens in the USA. And if you want your life to change, it can....whether it be here or over there....

Try to stay positive. I am very very worried about your state of mind. *hugs*

[TracyTN 237]

I hate reading the defeatist attitude, mary&tom. I can understand why, but at some point, you have to get the 'fight' back in you and start getting ready to organize your life - with Tom and without the US (our loss, in my opinion).

Personally I would love to live in the UK, but my fiance's job and living situation makes it highly unfeasible for us. Sounds like Tom has a good job with a pension, which is so much more than a lot of others have.

Many, many people never find the love of their lives, which is truly truly sad. At least you two can be together - even if it isn't exactly in the way you wanted. I guess all I'm saying is don't let the stupid US government ruin your lives and squash your happiness. Are they really worth that?

[MistyB 0]

Can you really and truly understand why Mary feels as crappy as she does? Waivers are very very nervewracking. They are time consuming. They are expensive. You are putting your hopes and dreams in the hands of a stranger that doesnt know squat about you as a person. They are deciding how you will live your life with the person you love. Mary is devastated and rightly so. She has been through the wringer in this waiver fiasco. None of it makes sense as to why they would even let them file for the waiver if they knew all along it was unwaiverable. Someone didnt do their job properly and gave them false information. I would call the consulate tomorrow and demand to speak to the consul. Someone out there has answers. Mary really needs those answers. It's easy to tell her to fight but she's just had her life turned upside down. That takes a bit of recovery.

I do believe Rebecca was right though. I believe Mary needs an excellent immigration attorney. Maybe that attorney could even consult with a UK criminal attorney and find out what the heck happened.

Again I hope you are ok Mary and you just take all the time you need to really think about your future. Just as long as you two are together...

[mary&tom 0]

Can you really and truly understand why Mary feels as crappy as she does? Waivers are very very nervewracking. They are time consuming. They are expensive. You are putting your hopes and dreams in the hands of a stranger that doesnt know squat about you as a person. They are deciding how you will live your life with the person you love. Mary is devastated and rightly so. She has been through the wringer in this waiver fiasco. None of it makes sense as to why they would even let them file for the waiver if they knew all along it was unwaiverable. Someone didnt do their job properly and gave them false information. I would call the consulate tomorrow and demand to speak to the consul. Someone out there has answers. Mary really needs those answers. It's easy to tell her to fight but she's just had her life turned upside down. That takes a bit of recovery.

I do believe Rebecca was right though. I believe Mary needs an excellent immigration attorney. Maybe that attorney could even consult with a UK criminal attorney and find out what the heck happened.

Again I hope you are ok Mary and you just take all the time you need to really think about your future. Just as long as you two are together...

Misty, you have explained better than I could. I know I am not thinking clearly and probably my posts make no sense at all. Today it feels like we have moved from feeling numb and exhausted to confused and tired. Still not the best place to be while making life decisions.

In the autumn, after we found out what was on the police and court reports, Tom did consult a top attorney here in London. An American lawyer who specializes in waivers. He told us to disengage and withdraw our petition. He said he could not help us.. that we would not be offered the chance to waiver. We were unable to do that. We needed closure so we went to the interview against his advice, that of laurel scott and another lawyer from this forum. We did not expect to be offered the waiver. When they decided to let us file the petition (as I have said before they consulted supervisors first and, we assumed, those who would be processing the petition ). We were pleased and optimistic at this point. We were told they have a high approval rate. We were told we had a good chance. We relaxed as much as possible for the first two months of the wait as we had been told it would take two months. However, the entire month of February became increasingly stressful as we waited each morning for that phone to ring. We did expect it to eventually ring... with the news we were waiting for.

So, yes, life has been turned upside down. During this waiting period we allowed ourselves to become excited again about our life in the states. We have a home ready for us there. My family is there and they all really like Tom. During his visits we bought things together to prepare for his move. His new computer desk and chair are waiting there. We bought kitchen and gardening supplies together. He bought the USA software data for his GPS unit. He bought a telescope that we planned to use out at the lakeside property that my daughter owns. I know those are just material things and unimportant in the larger scheme of things, but I am mentioning them because it shows where our hearts and minds were. We had a LIFE planned there.

When we went to the interview we had just started coming to terms with the situation. We had a flat lined up that we were going to move into the following week. We had to let it go when the embassy told us not to change address while the waiver was being processed. Now I suddenly feel homeless. We have spent the last four months in a two room flat with no kitchen. If I go back to Michigan on the 21st, I will leave not knowing where we will be living. I will go back to the home that we were meant to occupy together and somehow get rid of most of the belongings I have accumulated over a period of 30 years. I have lived most of my adult life in that house. I don't mind giving up things... they are just things.... ok, I do hate giving up my 4000 cds and the shelves I built for them. I don't mind selling the house if it means that maybe eventually we can buy something here. What I do dread is the fact that we have to be separated again for what could be months as I tackle what seems to be an unsurmountable task. It is a huge house. We probably would have eventually sold it and bought something else, but we would have done all the work together. We work very well together.

Of course Tom was going to have to sort all his stuff before coming to the states but he has two small rooms full... I have 11 big rooms full. Huge closets and all sorts of built-in storage... all full. How long do you think it would take one person to sort all that alone? I just am not sure I am physically or emotionally up to the task. All my kids have things stored there. My ex has stuff still stored there because the only way I can ever get him to take any of it is if I sort and pack it and carry it out of the house !!!

Tracy, we do realize how lucky we are to have found each other. Our love for each other has never been in question. We know we are lucky to have spent as much time together as we have during this process. Many cannot. The four month separation we had between July and November was unbearable. I wasn't with him when he got that police report. I wasn't with him the day the lawyer said we would never be offered a waiver. I am grateful I was with him when he got the denial letter. We spent the entire weekend numb and in shock but we were together... except for when he was at work. Fortunately he only worked single shifts over the weekend. I started really losing it when he had to work double shifts starting Monday. Fortunately we had this morning and early afternoon together. We needed it. However we were not able to come to any decisions yet. We are both still too confused and overwhelmed right now.

Misty, we really do have to think long and hard about our future... but we will be together. They can't take that away from us...unless the stress finally kills us. Can you imagine how exhausting this has been for Tom to work 16 hour shifts while under this kind of stress?

Mary

[pax 0]

I wonder what would happen if the press got a hold of your story, Mary.

Just a thought.

[new orleans bound 0]

Mary and Tom, I really do feel for you. I've been reading the thread for a while now, but I never really posted because my waiver was being filed in Canada. But I still paid attention to what was going on in these threads on VJ as well as immigrate to 2 us site.

I understand how you and Tom feel. It's like a rug has been pulled out from underneath you. You build up all this hope because you were lead to believe that something was possible and than bam you get broad sided. This entire journey is a frail one. There’s so much at stake and so much involved with the whole process. It’s like a big rollercoaster ride with no clear end in site especially when you have to file a waiver. At least that’s my take on this long tedious process. Although my situation is slightly different than yours and Tom’s, I do understand your agony. I'm not trying to take the focus away from what you're experiencing and going through. But I know what it's like to put your life on hold while you wait for things to be resolved, as I’m sure many are here. It's depressing to know that people sneak into the States all the time and commit crimes and do hateful things and those of us who haven't done anything unlawful pay. One feels as though they are in a constant state of limbo. Can't really do anything in the States and can't really do anything anywhere else while you wait for judgment. I hate the fact that people have all these preconceived notations before you go into the interview and don't look at all the facts. I feel that that's the most maddening thing. I know that there are tons of people filing waivers but shouldn't one take the time to read one's particular case before making a judgment. I mean look at all the people smuggling drugs into the States. Do they get bans like the rest of us who are legit? In some cases it's a slap on the wrist and on their way they go. It's very frustrating. I believe the US is so worried about letting us foreigners in, but they should really be more concerned with what the average Joe in the US does than the productive citizens of foreign countries whose only mistake was marring someone who was not a USC.

When my husband and I got my interview notice, we were ecstatic. We were so confident that I was coming home, I started to liquidate everything here in Canada and get to the interview and be told by the adjucator that they wont listen to your case over a simple overstay, they wont let you file a waiver period is devastating. There aren't enough words out there to use to explain how it can affect you. It's so unimaginable to think that one person has so much power over you. I realize that there are people here who will read my comments and wonder whether my case is more complex than what I say. It really isn't, I was working in the US on a TN, switched job but not Visa’s and when I renewed I was informed that that was illegal and that I had overstayed my visa by 191 days. In the span of 5 hours my life and that of my husband were turned upside down. It's not even the fact that I received a ban, it's getting to the interview having everything prepared and being told that they won’t listen to your case. Its hard letting someone decided your fate, knowing that you’re a decent person and you did something stupid, learned your mistake now let me be with my spouse. Very hard indeed.

Joanna