Dual citizenship

[Ol D 0]

Our son was born in US, and he is a US citizen, as well as my husband.

I was thinking to apply for a second Russian citizenship for our son, because each time we will need to travel to Russia I will need to open a visa for him.

I did a little research on this and some airlines require having a notarized letter from other parent for children traveling with one parent. Did anyone have this experience? Do they still require having this letter in case our son will have a dual Russian citizenship?

I am a little concerned about a military service for all Russian males. Does our son still need to go to the Russian military even if he lives in US?

Thanks,

Olga

[Bobalouie 0]

Our son was born in US, and he is a US citizen, as well as my husband.

I was thinking to apply for a second Russian citizenship for our son, because each time we will need to travel to Russia I will need to open a visa for him.

I did a little research on this and some airlines require having a notarized letter from other parent for children traveling with one parent. Did anyone have this experience? Do they still require having this letter in case our son will have a dual Russian citizenship?

I am a little concerned about a military service for all Russian males. Does our son still need to go to the Russian military even if he lives in US?

Thanks,

Olga

My understanding is that niether Russia nor the US recognizes dual citizenship. Each one requires you to renounce the other. I dont know about the notarized letter.

Yes, my understanding is that your son will be required to do the compulsory military service. IF he is a Russian citizen he will be required to complete his service. They wont come looking for him in the US, but the first time he goes thru passport control on a russian passport, and is of the required age he could be snagged for service, or jailed for not doing the service in the first place. You are probably better off leaving him as a USC and just paying for the visas.

[shikarnov 7]

Yes, my understanding is that your son will be required to do the compulsory military service. IF he is a Russian citizen he will be required to complete his service. They wont come looking for him in the US, but the first time he goes thru passport control on a russian passport, and is of the required age he could be snagged for service, or jailed for not doing the service in the first place. You are probably better off leaving him as a USC and just paying for the visas.

I remember reading State Department memo a while back in which it was clearly stated that dual citizenship (which was possible, according to the article) bound the person to the laws of each country, and that it obstructed the State Department's ability to help you in any way should you find yourself in trouble in your second homeland. The article made specific mention to being unable to assist in cases of compulsory military service.

I'll see if I can dig up the link...

Z

[Satellite 1]

My understanding is that neither Russia nor the US recognizes dual citizenship. Each one requires you to renounce the other. I don't know about the notarized letter.

Everyone that I know has not renounced their Russian citizenship when naturalizing. However, if you try to obtain Russian citizenship while you are abroad they will make you renounce your US citizenship. I am not sure if are in Russia and try to gain their citizenship while there. And still that was the rule only as of 2002. Prior to 2002, people born in the former Soviet Union could simply pay a fine and get their citizenship back at the consulate abroad without doing anything special.

As for military service everything you said is true. However, based on the consulate website a child can be made a citizen and then choose not keep it at age 18. the exact age of compulsory military service. Or he can keep the citizenship and just (1) not visit Russia during the compulsory age, (2) bribe his way out of it, or (3) bribe a medical doctor that he is unable to perform due to his mental or physical condition.

http://www.consulrussia.org/citizen.htm

[gwenneh 7]

My understanding is that niether Russia nor the US recognizes dual citizenship. Each one requires you to renounce the other. I dont know about the notarized letter.

Your understanding is not entirely correct. The US Department of State's website can clarify this; the US does not encourage dual citizenship as it can impede the US government's ability to intercede on your behalf in your foreign country should that be necessary, but they do not require you to renounce your foreign citizenship when you take US citizenship.

[mox 298]

Your understanding is not entirely correct. The US Department of State's website can clarify this; the US does not encourage dual citizenship as it can impede the US government's ability to intercede on your behalf in your foreign country should that be necessary, but they do not require you to renounce your foreign citizenship when you take US citizenship.

Right. My neighbor is married to a Canadian. She recently became a US citizen, and now holds dual-citizenship. Neither country required her to renounce Canadian citizenship.

[eekee 182]

I have seen policeman in Russia stop men who look like they should be either doing or have already completed their military service and hauling off the ones who didn't immediately. Plus, if your son goes to college in the US he will not have completed the Russian version of ROTC so that's something else to think about. However, if he gets a phd he is exempt so you could just make him do a lot of schooling!

Edited December 27, 2007 by eekee

[Bobalouie 0]

My understanding is that niether Russia nor the US recognizes dual citizenship. Each one requires you to renounce the other. I dont know about the notarized letter.

Your understanding is not entirely correct. The US Department of State's website can clarify this; the US does not encourage dual citizenship as it can impede the US government's ability to intercede on your behalf in your foreign country should that be necessary, but they do not require you to renounce your foreign citizenship when you take US citizenship.

I stand corrected on the dual citizenship!

[visaveteran1 33]

Under Putin, Russia is a very unpredictable place to be a citizen. I'd be happy with being a 100% American citizen.

The compulsory military thing is very odd to me because it's just one year. How can you train a soldier and get some useful service from him in one year? Why even bother?

[shikarnov 7]

Under Putin, Russia is a very unpredictable place to be a citizen. I'd be happy with being a 100% American citizen.

The compulsory military thing is very odd to me because it's just one year. How can you train a soldier and get some useful service from him in one year? Why even bother?

In fairness, President Putin has made Russia a very predictable place to be a citizen. After more than 20 years of uncertainly, President Putin has given the Russian people a sense of hope for a better future. He makes the West a bit uneasy because he cares about Russian interests only, and doesn't succumb to the political correctness that is weakening western countries beyond measure (case and point, the US in Iraq). He may be tough to deal with, and may prove to be bad for Western interests around the globe, but he isn't bad for Russia. He's exactly what they need.

The compulsory service in Russia is odd to me as well. In many counties, its used to instill a sense of discipline in young people -- and, of course, to keep their defense force strong. In Russia, I'm just not sure those kids are called up for any better reason than that the officers beat their troops into the ground too quickly, and thus necessitate an annual refresh.

Z

Edited December 28, 2007 by shikarnov

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

When I lived in Kazan' for a year with my fiancée, our neighbour's son decided "screw" the military. Once a week the militsiya showed up looking to find and "talk" to him. My fiancée assured me, when they find him, he will have regretted ignoring his calling. She said a year in the military there is rough. A lot of physical abuse is given out by your superiors.

I have seen policeman in Russia stop men who look like they should be either doing or have already completed their military service and hauling off the ones who didn't immediately. Plus, if your son goes to college in the US he will not have completed the Russian version of ROTC so that's something else to think about. However, if he gets a phd he is exempt so you could just make him do a lot of schooling!

[Ol D 0]

Thanks a lot for your responses.

I have one more question:

If I choose to make my son a Russian citizen for the purpose of traveling without a visa and by the time he will be 18 he won't continue to be a Russian citizen.

If he choose to work for the government or any other jobs required a top security clearance, would it matter to them that he had been Russian citizen before he turn 18?

Edited December 29, 2007 by Ol D

[shikarnov 7]

Thanks a lot for your responses.

I have one more question:

If I choose to make my son a Russian citizen for the purpose of traveling without a visa and by the time he will be 18 he won't continue to be a Russian citizen.

If he choose to work for the government or any other jobs required a top security clearance, would it matter to them that he had been Russian citizen before he turn 18?

In a perfect world, I'd say his Russian citizenship wouldn't be an issue -- however, the world is not perfect and there are those who will look at strong Russian ties as a security risk (regardless of what the discrimination laws say) -- especially if a new version of the Cold War erupts in years to come.

Will every job discriminate against him? No, of course not. Will one or two? Maybe. But the same thing can end up happening if your son turns out to be gay, or grows up to be fat, or decides to vote Republican whereas his boss is Democrat. There are a myriad of stupid reasons jobs will find to reject you.

I wouldn't worry about this particular decision effecting your baby's job prospects 25 years from now. I might worry about the myriad of other reasons outlined in this thread (like the State Department being unable to help you when there are problems), but I think you can relax about security clearances.

Z

[slim 1,514]

Are you asking if he can get a Secret clearance from the U.S. govt. after having Russian citizenship while being a minor?

[Chris Parker 11]

Our son was born in US, and he is a US citizen, as well as my husband.

I was thinking to apply for a second Russian citizenship for our son, because each time we will need to travel to Russia I will need to open a visa for him.

I did a little research on this and some airlines require having a notarized letter from other parent for children traveling with one parent. Did anyone have this experience? Do they still require having this letter in case our son will have a dual Russian citizenship?

I am a little concerned about a military service for all Russian males. Does our son still need to go to the Russian military even if he lives in US?

This is almost identical situation to ours, except our child is a girl.

The answer is that they will not give the child a visa, at least not if they know he/she has a Russian citizen parent (which they will absolutely know if the child is traveling with the Russian citizen parent). People have been known to get around this problem by just having the child travel with the non-Russian citizen parent.

If child must travel with the Russian citizen parent, the child must either get their own zagranpassport or be written into the accompanying Russian citizen parent's zagranpassport. To do this, the U.S. birth certificate needs an Apostille, and you need to translate it into Russian. Both parents (including the non-citizen) further must appear to give consent to the passport application, and provide proof of status in the USA (such as U.S. passport, permanent resident card, etc.). Parents' marriage certificate with an apostille was also required. The embassy will legalize your translation of the birth certificate and return it with passport. Child & parent enter & exit Russia with Russian passport.

Military service requirements for male Russian citizens permanently residing outside Russia is definitely a concern you should look into (as ours is a girl, there wasn't as such concern), though of course the rules could change by the time he reaches the proper age. There is also always the option of evading any such service by being careful to never enter the country again once an adult.