Please be honest with me...

[Divine Mercy 0]

This post is aimed mostly at the wonderful African American women who post so eloquently in this forum. But of course, all feedback is welcomed and appreciated.

I will not be so bold to make the claim that I am worldly or wise to the ways of human nature. This is a racial issue and I hope and pray it does not become heated, the thought of that possibility has prevented me from asking this question for a few months now. Firstly, let me start off by saying I was raised Christian (Roman Catholic Christian to be precise) and regardless of what "some people" say, do or believe, I was taught by my Church and my parents (mom mostly) that God created all people equal in dignity, we are all His children. Therefore, it makes me gasp when other "Christians" can be so hateful toward their fellow brothers and sisters.

I see the blatant hatred on TV or even at times in my own neighborhood but I tend to miss the subtle signs of it and I want to ask you to honestly tell me what you think is going on here. Have I become overly sensitive because this subject now hits me right where it hurts?

My office is pretty much composed of an equal number of white employees as black employees (with very few Asians or Hispanics in the mix). Everyone gets along very well for the most part. Until....

One day there was an article in the local newspaper about Loving Day (regarding Loving vs. Virginia the case of the mixed couple that were arrested in Virginia for being in an interracial marriage.) I was remarking to the receptionist at the office, who is an older African American woman (also NOT a Christian.. she claims to be Wiccan) how lucky I feel to be alive today, 40 years AFTER the legalization of interracial marriage. I shudder to think about being thrown in jail for being married to the person I love. My heart goes out to all of those who endured such bs laws. The woman just listened to me and said nothing. A few hours later she was alone with me in the copy room and she said that she thinks it should still be illegal. It is "wrong" for blacks to marry whites or any other race to "mix". In her words, they should keep the blood lines "PURE". She would never allow her son to marry a white lady. I just looked at her like this: I was in shocked silence while my mind was screaming NAZI!!!!!!!

I suppose to her, my son is "impure". My marriage is "wrong". I couldn't believe my ears!

I confided this conversation to an older African American gentleman at the office and he was horrified too. He apologized to me for her ignorance which was totally sweet but unnecessary.. he wasn't the offender after all.

My eyes were opened however. I started to notice that the other older African American ladies in the office treated me differently than everyone else (and they ARE Christians). They say hello as if they are being forced, they ignore me when in a group setting, they are curt and cold toward me when they are not that way with anyone else in the office. In the beginning they were nice to me but they didn't know who I was married to. Their attitude changed around the time I put his picture on my desk. I haven't addressed the issue at all. I continue to put a smile on my face and treat them in the same way I treat everyone else. I happily say good morning, how are you, etc. I refuse to go out of my way to win them over but I also refuse to repay rudeness with rudeness. As for the receptionist, I treat her in a friendly professional manner but I will never be friends with her. There are too many obstacles in life, why hand someone an invitation to bring you down?

I suppose my question(s) is/are something like this: Am I paranoid? Is there a general thought among older African American women regarding interracial marriages? I do realize that not all older people can be that way, my mother is not, the man at work is not. What am I up against here? What are they really thinking?

I'm curious and a little worried about it because I do have to spend the majority of my time with these people. Otherwise, it is not influential to my life. I love my husband and our son, they are my LIFE. What others think does not change that.

[taurean 0]

Divine Mercy: This is a really HOT button topic you started here, so I hope you have thick skin.

Here is what I can briefly say on the issue because it's kind of complex. First, not all people African-American think alike, though I am sure that you already know this. So there isn't a general concensus on any issue with us. Second, I think like any issue, there are folks who are for it, against it, or some who just don't care. And it's not just a generational thing either. I know people from age 18-90 who think differently on interracial marriage. Some older folks I know are in the for it camp, some young people I know are against it and vice versa. So to know what an individual is really thinking you probably have to ask that person.

It can hurt to know that someone wouldn't accept your union because of their own beliefs and/or experiences. Heck, there are Black Americans I know that don't "approve" of my relationship with an African man, and I am Black! I just chalk it up to ignorance and the old adage that everyone is going to have an opinion on your life, warrented or not. Despite all of that, you seem to have adopted the right attitude regarding your situation.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

There are all types in the world and you have the right attitude, that what they think doesn't really matter. To me, I think it's the people who are important in your life that matter. My daughter is birracial and I was very nervous about what that meant for her life. Then I saw her react to a little girl in a play group challenging the fact that she and her mother were different colors. She handled it. She didn't even look to me for reinforcement. They are rebuilding the world, we just have to maintain the self-confidence and spirit within them to keep stepping forward. I remember an aunt said she wouldn't come to my wedding because he wasn't black. I didn't address it at all, publicly. I spoke with my man about it and we came to terms with it and we moved on. If she doesn't have love for me, then she shouldn't be there. She did come to the wedding. I guess since I didn't feed the drama, the flame just went out. Now, my family is unhappy cause I've divorced this same man and I'm marrying an African man. "Why can't that girl find a good educated west indian man?" My cousins all married west indian men. My sister did too. She's divorced him cause he beat her and tried to kill her. Hmmmm.....I think I'll live my own life. I'm happy, and if they don't want to come along for the ride, get off the train! My mother was often bothered by what the "family" thinks. After what I went through with my ex-husband, she was probably just as broken as I was. She said, you'll never be happy again. Then Abass and I grew into more than just friends and she was very confused. She said, this is not how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to be alone and grieving the loss of your husband. I told her that I'd done that for over a year already and it was time to move on. A few weeks later she called me and told me that if she had my spirit she would have lived a happier life. That makes me sad. But back in the day, they didn't break the family rules. They towed the line. It's about time we made new rules.

[LonelyforLagos 0]

You do have to have thick skin my dear. I am black (mixed) and it has not been a picnic for me either because I married a NIGERIAN........

[chispas 0]

Hello to all.

Yes, you are correct in questioning whether this difference has to do with the age of the people in question. People of all ages and races do have their own preferences and ideas about "everything" and nothing at all. Just like my answer today is just one person's view in tens of millions of people, women, blacks and 40+. In my own personal experience I found that my sisters and I thought my mother and her sisters were closed minded when it came to race. As my mother thought her mother was too because my grandmother was of mixed race and she married the blackest man (my grandfather) that she could find.

I could say that most black women in their seventies don't trust whites, but that would be inaccurate. To say that many black women in their seventies lived through Jim Crow laws and still remember those effects would be more accurate. But leaving sweeping generalities behind, one would have to consider too many variables (income, education, geographic location, etc) to come up with a definitive answer. So in the meantime consider yourself more enlightened and brush that experience to one side. If they don't pay rent in your brain, don't give them space to infiltrate it. Keep on rolling girl.

Chispas

[Simply_Uno 1]

I suppose my question(s) is/are something like this: Am I paranoid? Is there a general thought among older African American women regarding interracial marriages? I do realize that not all older people can be that way, my mother is not, the man at work is not. What am I up against here? What are they really thinking?

Salutations, I pray that you are blessed with wisdom and grace for your race.

To answer your questions: No, you are not being paranoid, you have just been enlightened to another level of social-racial consciousness or unconsciousness. She has informed you of the school of thought to which she subscribes.

Next answer, yes there is a general thought among african american women regarding interracial marriages, and no, age has nothing to do with it.

Typically, if an african american woman sees a white woman or any woman who is not black with one of our very own (regardless of where he's from), the thoughts are "why did he have to be with her, or who does she think she is and last but not least, what, a black woman aint good enough for him, he must have forgotten where he came from!"

Personally, I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away (that theory applies both ways not just to blacks but all races)!

I also realized that to each his or her own, who am I to judge...so I guess I must have experienced some sort of growth.

And as far as your male coworker, typically most african american men dont care what color the woman is, as long as she is a woman.

Its african american women that tend to stay close to our own, and those reasons are deep rooted in our culture, society, and history. You would have to be black to understand exactly where I am coming from. I hope I have shed some light on your situation.

P.S. From a societal perspective; the more successful a black man, the more money he makes, the lighter his woman should be. (Its a climb up the status ladder).

If you have any more questions, please feel free to pm.

[Frank+Jocelyn 1]

I am not a woman and am not black, but I do have a great deal of experience dealing with workplace dynamics. We all spend a great deal of time at work and it is easy and comfortable to fall into workplace freindships. We spend a lot of time with these folks and it certaily makes the work day easier if you enjoy the company of your coworkers.

However...

It is always better to maintain very shallow relationships with the people at work. An workplace puts people together in relationships that would never exist otherwise. We choose our friends very carefully, but don't usually have a choice with our coworkers. People generally cooperate and act friendly at work because it is necessary. But make no mistake, most of these people are not your friends even if they do give you a Christmas card.

We all love to talk about our spouse and kids. Avoid the temptation to do this at work. I know it is hard, but you will have much less drama if you keep your personal business at home. I don't mean you shouldn't have pictures of your husband or kids on your desk. But try to resist any conversations that are not superficial. It sounds like you do work with a racist. This should not surprise you since there are plenty of them out there.

Just go to work, do your job and don't look there for confirmation of your lifestye, religion, politics or anything else. And don't think you can ever understand the logic of a racist because if they were capable analyzing their thinking they wouldn't be racist in the first place. And yes, a person who objects to interracial marriage is a racist even if they are otherwise accepting of other races.

I'll make one final point becasue you mentioned religion several times. Churches are still the most segregated institutions in America. I don't say that to be critical; its just a fact. I think it would be nieve to think the there are fewer christian racists than non-christian racists.

[angel73 0]

It really pains me that you have to go through this. People talk about me when they found out that I was engage to an africian. They said that I was marrying out of my race. But, Im black and he's black. Sometimes I have to overlook them like Jesus said that they are thrown about like a sheep without a shepard. Remember what God said for us to marry and become fruitful. He didnt say marry in our race he said marry. So as long as you know that, and you did what God want you to do who cares what other people think. So, just keep you head up and continue what your doing, always remember it wont be long before your husband to with you.

[Ta Ta 1]

Let it roll off you like water off a duck. Don't try to analyze it because it makes no sense. To know the reasons would mean to ask the specific person.

Unononehigher, I have read a very good article referring to the deep rooted, historical and social reasons. I did not save it so I can not post a link.

But I know what you mean.

[Benandshan 0]

I just would like to say that if you have the fear of God, that's the only man you should worry about disappointing. People are going to talk, nonetheless they chastised Jesus but he was healed by his faith. Just hold on and know that "what God has joined together, no man can put asunder"

Ben and Shan

[LonelyforLagos 0]

Very good advice Frank (and Jocelyn). I discuss my marriage as little as possible with co-workers, and believe me when they can't stand it any longer they ask. I work for a major telecommunication company and it can get crazy sometimes just in general.

One should not however be a surprise that there are black racist as well as white racist and there are some racist from other countries as well that bloom after settling here in the US after becoming affluent.

When I admitted to one white co-worker that I was going to Nigeria to get married she

said "why in the world would you marry a stinky, smelly, Nigerian?" "They don't believe in deodorant and he'll just mistreat you and leave you after he gets his citizenship".

I couldn't say a word, I was speechless!

As far as older blacks being racist it depends on what personally happened to them or their relatives during the 40's, 50's and 60's in America that they have not been able to come to grips with. Sometimes in the name of religion. My own father who is a Black Foot Indian 84 years old will not allow his own son who is married to a white woman bring her to his house.

My brother is still happily married after 30 years and we love her very much!

[ose_n_me 0]

Typically, if an african american woman sees a white woman or any woman who is not black with one of our very own (regardless of where he's from), the thoughts are "why did he have to be with her, or who does she think she is and last but not least, what, a black woman aint good enough for him, he must have forgotten where he came from!"

Personally, I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away

U have opened up a can of worms now! First let me say that we are all entitled to our opinions. Thats what these forums are for. And no one should be afraid to voice theirs. Matter of fact they should always stand up for what they believe in. And i understand that opinions are formed in several ways: they are taught, formed out of a negative/positive experience, realized over time and maturity, formed from religious interpretations, products of peer pressure, and many more. So to question why someone feels a certain way about something can be a complex task. We are all very different human beings, going thru this life in different places, different races, different faces! But the core of our being should be our God.

I only kno of a few religions that discourage or outright ban mixed race marriage. And to those who practice that religion, that is ur belief and i respect it. But my christian faith tells me that all are created equal. Although different and unique and individual...we are all children of God. It is my opinion that anyone who calls themself a christian, goes to church, reads the bible, and who then can turn around and say its wrong to love a person of a different race, is a hypocrite.

To address the statement i quoted above...i must respect ur opinion, although i don't understand it. A persons choice in a mate is a personal one. It is based on preference, attraction, compatability, interests, similar thoughts, opinions, goals, views on life, spiritual connection etc. Your comment made it seem as tho u think its just on a color basis. And even more disturbing, u feel that there is fundamentally something better or worse about a woman because of her color. U cant be so naive as to think that white women choose to love a black man just so there is one less for u! Or that we think we are better or more deserving. And why cant a black man make that choice without being judged as someone "not knoing where he came from", or "selling out". Do u hear how riduculous all this sounds. Its not about u! Its not about color! Its not about race! Its about love, choice, and humankind. Why should anyone care what someone else is doing, as long as they are happy, living a righteous life in God's eyes, and being a good human being.

And it really bothered me, the comment made that "I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away"..WOW..this implies you think that black men who date outside their race are somehow no good, or not worthy, or don't deserve the same amt of respect as other black men. Stop thinking their choices are a personal attack on black women! Can't everyone just be judged on their character and integrity, and not on who they choose to spend their life with.

racism (n.) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

In closing i would like to say that i will never pretend that i kno what its like to be black, nor african...i will never kno the true battles that were fought...I was not there in the days of slavery, or during the civil rights era...but please do not think i don't still feel the pain. I am ashamed of my people, and others who have done such atrocites to our own humankind. But please don't blame me for the hatred of others. I wish to be judged as an individual. Not as a reflection of the past.

I really could go on and on about this, as I have written alot about this subject, both as opinion and personal experience. I have been dating black men exclusively my entire life,(i'm 42) and have 3 beautiful biracial children. I have been in the black culture and lifestyle for a long time, and have experienced my share of prejudice! Racism goes both ways. Always has...always will.

God help us see beyond color and race...and begin to love each other unconditionally! AMEN.

[Queen Jenn 0]

Let it roll off you like water off a duck.

You know, I thought I was the only one who thinks "I'm a duck" when things get tough. When they really get tough, and I need to laugh about it, my mom and I will get together, stick our butts out, fold our arms like wings and walk around "quacking" for a few moments. (Maybe you'll think I'm crazy, but laughing is for me the only way to get past things that REALLY hurt).

Now, because you chose to marry an African, there will ALWAYS be people who won't approve. But what my fiance and I have decided is that as long as we feel like we are doing what is right in the sight of GOD, it doesn't matter what other people think or say. IMO, there are three types of people you will encounter:

1. Those who will love you AND your husband and who will support you;

2. Those who will smile and be nice to you, but then talk about you behind your back;

3. And those who will say the nasty things right to your face.

I've experienced this already, and I'm not even married to my african man yet. I have an uncle who is trying his best to be loving and supportive. But, bless his heart, I know it is very difficult for him to accept an interracial marriage. Everybody in the family has agreed NOT to tell my grandmother. She would have a heart-attack and a stroke at the same time if she knew I was marrying a black man. My grandmother (and many in her generation) is quite racist. She doesn't like ANYBODY who isn't WHITE.

But my man is the BEST thing that has ever happened to me. Things may be tough, people WILL say hurtful things, but the love and happiness we have is worth everything we may face. Just focus on how much you love your husband and don't let those negative nasty comments affect your relationship. The receptionist DOESN'T know your husband and she doesn't know your relationship and so what she says about it really should just go out with the trash. Because that's all it is - trash talk. And it doesn't do anybody one bit of good. Okay, I think I'm starting to ramble.

My point is, that you have to be a duck, or grow thick skin, or throw those comments out with the trash, or whatever you need to do to handle the things that people may say and NOT let it have an effect on your relationship and happiness. I agree with another post that said to keep conversations superficial at work. Especially when you know there are those who you'll have trouble with.

I'm sorry to say that there are people out there who just can't keep their nastiness to themselves. Someone needs ot give that receptionist a copy of Bambi and tell her to pay attention to the phrase "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all."

[Queen Jenn 0]

But my christian faith tells me that all are created equal. Although different and unique and individual...we are all children of God. It is my opinion that anyone who calls themself a christian, goes to church, reads the bible, and who then can turn around and say its wrong to love a person of a different race, is a hypocrite.

I really could go on and on about this, as I have written alot about this subject, both as opinion and personal experience. I have been dating black men exclusively my entire life,(i'm 42) and have 3 beautiful biracial children. I have been in the black culture and lifestyle for a long time, and have experienced my share of prejudice! Racism goes both ways. Always has...always will.

God help us see beyond color and race...and begin to love each other unconditionally! AMEN.

I completely agree. I have always believed that we are all God's children. Variety is the spice of life. How boring would it be if we all had exactly the same skin color, height, build, hair color, eye color. . . You getting me? We are different, but equal.

It's true that racism goes both ways. When I was in Africa with my man, there were many Africans who glared at us disapprovingly. When he gets here, there will be people here who will do the same.

And I totally agree - GOD HELP US SEE BEYOND COLOR AND RACE AND BEGIN TO LOVE EACH OTHER UNCONDITIONALLY.

I hope that those of us who DO see beyond all that and see EVERYBODY as a child of God will inspire others to do the same.

[chispas 0]

However...

It is always better to maintain very shallow relationships with the people at work. An workplace puts people together in relationships that would never exist otherwise. We choose our friends very carefully, but don't usually have a choice with our coworkers. People generally cooperate and act friendly at work because it is necessary. But make no mistake, most of these people are not your friends even if they do give you a Christmas card.

We all love to talk about our spouse and kids. Avoid the temptation to do this at work. I know it is hard, but you will have much less drama if you keep your personal business at home. I don't mean you shouldn't have pictures of your husband or kids on your desk. But try to resist any conversations that are not superficial. It sounds like you do work with a racist. This should not surprise you since there are plenty of them out there.

Well said! :thumbs: