Yesterday in another thread, it was pointed out by a moderator that grievances should be made to mods or Ewok via pm. Well, I've done exactly that in the past, and it usually goes like this: I pm a mod (or get a response from a mod after reporting a post). Sometimes the mod is helpful, but often the mod is condescending and dismissive. For example, recently when I reported a TOS violation, I got the wonderful "if you feel that the thread is offensive to you or you have issues with the content then I would suggest that you should avoid that thread altogether."

So then I escalate to Ewok, who ignores me completely. Oh, Ewok is probably busy, that's understandable. Except that over the last 2-3 months I've pm'd Ewok on 4 different occasions, without a single reply.

So...Ewok and moderators, if you really want dirty laundry aired in private, then how about treating the membership who deign to break the holy police tape that separate the mortals from the mods with a little respect? Quit with the templatized, snarky, condescending bullshit answers and try to actually address our real concerns using real non-corporate-double-speak. I understand and accept that I've made myself somewhat unpopular with the moderator community, but it's your *job* to provide good moderation, despite your personal opinion of me and my windmills. If you can't be impartial or treat other members outside your own personal clique with a little respect, then please step down.

Part 2 of a good "keep dirty laundry inside" policy is: Ewok, how about answering your pm's? I don't care if it's a one-sentence reply where you just say "sorry, I'm backing the mod on this one" or whatever. Just give me and others the courtesy of a few milliseconds of your time.

So please, mods, either stop griping that grievances need to be taken to pm, or handle them in a way that you would want your own grievances handled. And Ewok, you are the escalation process. If we don't feel like you are listening, then we don't feel like we are being heard. I shouldn't have to be saying this, this is all "Forum Moderation 101" stuff. But there it is. Heed it or ignore it as you like, just please stop telling us to take grievances to private chat unless you're willing to change how you handle them.

Also I lied in the topic description. There are no unicorns and rainbows at VJ. Just dogs in fights, American men who hate American women, British people who don't trust the postal system, uppity Australians, guns, pie, and bitchy whiny moxen. Which, when you think about it, rul3z over unicorns.

wonder how long before this is closed?

Good point Mox

Maybe Ewok doesn't like you.

Someone said I could find some pie here????

Personally, I don't get the whole mail box thing half a mile away from your house....I mean anything could happen to your mail!

This sounds fishy, si man. In before the lox... er, mox... er, lock, si man.

I'm told that many people like mox on their bagels!

I guess I'm partial, but I'm curious why anyone would think this thread lock-worthy. Aside from my usual directness, there's nothing in my OP that should be considered offensive to any mod or admin. The moderation team would like complaints to be addressed via a less public conduit, which in the general case would probably be a good thing. I'm offering the solution. I'd love to offer this solution via a less public conduit, but that route seems to be currently unavailable.

Personally, I have a big problem with being told to take it to PM. Especially when it's being done to 'circle the wagons'.

And it always sounds like you are being put in the corner with your nose to the wall. "Oh take it to PM this isn't the way to handle things".

Bah. Load of BS in my opinion.

I don't mind taking a one-off grievance to pm, it's the civil thing to do. If I have a problem with another poster or a mod, or a very particular problem that the rest of the world really doesn't need to be involved with, that's cool. There is, after all, not usually a need to embarrass or single out people in public. But I need to be met half way. I'll take it to pm if my issue is treated seriously. If, on the other hand, they're going to blow smoke up my аss or ignore me, then I'm going to reciprocate in kind.

And just to caveat, when I say I want my issue treated seriously, I recognize that it's not always going to go my way. I may not like your decision, but I'll eventually live with it (possibly after some impassioned back and forth) if I feel like I got a fair hearing.

Depends.

If people are just bickering because they hate each other that's one thing.

I don't think anyone in power can tell the difference anymore. Moderation on Vj isn't anything at all like what it should be given it's origin as a news group to HELP people. At least as far as the upper forums go, it's pretty much become a free-for-all where it's easier to learn about how to get AROUND immigration procedures than to comply with them.

I think this is all an indication of society's problems as a whole. It is our duty to aire all our dirty laundry in public, so that the community could learn as a whole.

Plus, it is much more entertaining that way.

I would be interested in hearing from Ewok about this. Mox brings up a very interesting point, and so does becca.

But we aren't hearing anything but crickets now - are we?

I hear you sister.

I love VJ. Not only has it helped me and countless others with our immigration ordeals, but i have made friends that will last for a long time. But the way things are now, it is disheartening. Really, and a lot. A lot of wrong advise, sometimes even allowing for a bit of "oh, you can do that as long as they don't find out" crap is being let slide. And I am talking about upper forums here. This should stop.

People b1tch about me being too blunt. Well, immigration IS a blunt and invasive process; and I am not about to sugar coat it for anyone. I'd rather the OPs hate my guts for a while, and then be reunited with their loved ones, than have them adore me for cuddling them and then be slapped with a denial, or even worse.

I hope Ewok responds to this thread.

I agree. I don't trust the postal service.

I agree with Len. Lots of bad advice being given in the upper forums.

SMOKE...

LOLOL.........it is funneh!

Reminds me of my Etymology Professor... once he actually walked in the lecture hall, took his hat off, put it back on and walked away

The lack of moderator response is neither surprising nor desirable, since I would really only expect to get the Michael Scott version of "we take your concerns srsly" answer anyway. (having said that, I would *welcome* with open tentacles an actual non-party-line response and constructive follow-on dialog, but then I would also welcome an actual leprechaun in me Lucky Charms...personally I think the odds are in favor of the leprechaun.)

I agree with RJ (and I don't do that often, organizationally anyway) that the upper forums need help BADLY (and this has been pointed out over and over and over for many many months, with many many promises of change), but the real intent of my post is that there needs to be a real and viable conduit for members to make themselves heard. If that is publicly in this forum, then so be it. But if the moderation team are going to insist that we take complaints offline, then they need to do more than just brush us off with canned responses and snarky remarks.

I concur. And I agree that what we are looking for is not moderator response in this thread. We -I- are looking to hear from the furry one.

The upper forums are in disarray. And a few folks have what it takes to give advise, to the point and without unicorns and rainbows, and they are shut down. and no, I am not talking about me.

Snarky remarks?

Well, that never happens!!

THE UPPER FORUMS HAVE BEEN IN DISARRAY EVER SINCE THE NOOBS THREAD WAS CLOSED

Edited to add: kind of true. As smug as we were; we were able to send out the people that knew the answers to the upper forums.

Is no one going to address the issue about the postal service, either? It's incredibly important to us Brits.

You are on hold... your call is important to us; please remain on the line....

Is it? I'd rather hand deliver my mail then trust Royal Mail lol.

Excellent stuff! At least I know my concerns are a top priority!




I meant it being addressed is incredibly important.

Please remain on the line.... all our operators are busy.... we will tend to your call in the order received...

The Post Office was closed today.

lol stop that line gives me heart palpitations

You are not hearing anything (at the time you posted this) because I am not sitting at my PC 24/7 (reality check). I am more than happy to reply but please understand that cyborg Ewok does have to sleep, eat and do other work to take care of the Ewok family . I will reply to the above once I read all the posts in this thread.

Sure - I'll address it.

For anyone living in the UK - they have grown up with excellent postal service. 2 to 3 deliveries per day, even.

That's not the case in the USA.

If you want BETTER service at your local address in the USA, you must do 2 things:

1. make some weed brownies, give to your local postal carrier that's assigned to your route and
2. complain twice a week to the supervisor back at the station, in writing. Complaint letters are accepted free without the need for postage.



Not in the UK !!

Heathens! They don't celebrate Armistice Day?

It's true!

In 2009, these days will fall on the following dates:

New Years Day – Thursday 1 January
Good Friday – Friday 10 April
Easter Monday – Monday 13 April (Except Scotland)
May Day – Monday 4 May
Spring Bank Holiday – Monday 25 May
Monday 3 August (Scotland Only)
August Summer Bank Holiday – Monday 30 August
Christmas Day – Friday 25 December
Boxing Day – Saturday 26 December

To this point, like was said before, I have been getting a feel for how the Deputy Mod position has worked out in the Regional Area. So far (despite the initial comments) I have had a great response with gaining valuable feedback on local issues that I did not have visibility into. MENA and other regional forums are certainly in the middle of some "house keeping" to stem some "bad behavior" by a few select members and I think that overall the concept of the Deputy Mod should be extended (as planned) to the upper forums. I know that it has taken time to get to this level, but as Charles would tell you, there has been many tweaks in just getting the Deputy Mod account set up properly and defining the role of that new moderation position. Getting to the point, I think the Deputy Moderation position(s) being extended to the upper forums are a godo first step to address many of the concerns raised. We will need to select a "diplomatic", centered, rational, well spoken and respectful/polite person for that job. Those forums especially contain very emotional and stressful topics that need a special touch when moderating.

I get about 40 PMs a day and you are right, some do slip through the cracks. If you are serious that I did not reply (I have not checked my PM records to be sure, but I somehow feel like I have -- I may be wrong) to any of your PMs then that is a mistake. I will try to not let any slip by again, but please realize that I can not have to 10 back and forths for every PM I get or I would be typing all day long.



This forum here was for this type of thing. I do not mind this topic however I always prefer constructive, non inflammatory statement / positions to be made. It makes the items in question easier to discuss and make actionable changes if required. As for PM issues, I would prefer "less diplomatic" messages to be sent there -- i.e. "The mods suck, they are unfair, this is why". I have a constant feedback loop going with mods when there is a mistake made (I may not post things publicly but I do let them know when they made a mistake and how trhey should change their decision making process in the future, or how to better handle something, or even for them to pass the buck with regards to certain situations to another mod or myself for future events).

SURELY YOU DO NOT INSINUATE THAT CHARLES! FITS THAT DESCRIPTION KIDDING !!!!

Obviously I saw that comment coming, but please lets keep this on topic. The bottom line is that the upper forums are where people really do open up emotionally on some serious issues on their minds. It is important to get any local Deputy Mod decision right. We need someone who wont "force" things on people, will have a great deal of diplomacy and can help shape an atmosphere of "helping each other without being rude".

:::Quietly adding::: I've sent Capt. PMs (not a lot; like 3 in over 3 years), even replied back to one sent to me, and never heard back (I just figured 'he's busy' or 'his mailbox is broken').. :::exiting quietly:::

Do I really miss this many? The biggest issue is that when you get lots of PM's in the forums there is no way for me to "mark" to reply later. Once I read something it shows read and I may miss a follow up. Also in many cases I do read the PM but simply do not reply with a "I got it" PM. The sure fire way to get a hold of me if you need something is via the contact us section (see bottom of any page on VJ pretty much). This goes directly to my Blackberry... and I am very good at following up promptly on these in most cases.

I think that if you do bring in a mod specifically for the upper forums that they have to have a working knowledge of the visa process being discussed in the appropriate forums.

I don't mean that they are there to only give advice (then you have that problem with legally giving immigration advice and not being a lawyer). But they have to be able to recognise wrong advice and correct it accordingly. They have to be up to date too. Someone who went through, say K-1, four years ago would probably find that a lot of things have changed. So, you wouldn't want outdated advice being given by a mod.

Outdated and just plain incorrect advice is what needs to be stamped out. Currently, the upper forums are a mess, filled to the brim with people wading in their tuppence when they don't know the answer.

For this job I think you would need at least 4 people. To only pick one would be overwhelming - the amount of wrong advice out there is shocking and too much work for one person.

It's a tough call to make, Captain. It's a huge job and I don't envy you.

Everyone in this thread probably knows I wrote a comment towards Ewok a few weeks ago regarding PMs. One thing that he mentioned to me is if its an important topic make sure to have a good subject heading that will standout. That way he is more likely to see it. I haven't spoken to him much since then but now with strong titles I get replies.

Just a thought.

Oh one good point. If myself or a mod gets a reported thread/post and we review it. 90% of the time a response will not be sent regardless of if action was taken. We keep moderation of other members private (no public flogging) and we do not typically send back a PM saying "yes this was a TOS violation; no this is not a TOS violation; etc"... the issue is certainly looked at though regardless of if a reply is sent.



True indeed as I spot them easily .

Charles! and I are cyber buddies, he does an excellent job with the new duties. I would not expect otherwise. when I need help with site instructions he has always helped!!!! SRSLY.......

edit to add

titles like:



red hot azz free

The times I used the report button I didn't get an answer...I didn't even know some people get answers when they report... I just stopped using it because I saw no results

Saludos,
Caro

YOur response adds nothing to the thread.

hahahahah mox, you're the new me!


Good luck, buddy.