revokation of visa section 212(a)

[BinhJerome 14]

I have a question for those that have been denied. There are many questions about one sentence in the denial; I have seen it on many of the denial letters. Here is the sentence.

If USCIS revokes the petition beneficiary will become ineligible for a visa under section 212 (a)(6)©(i) of the Act.

I want to know if any of you have filed for the rebuttal, if you have just filed a new petition, what the outcome was, and what any attorney has told you. Mark Ellis said that our petition was dead, finished and closed, there was nothing we could do, and he said not to do a rebuttal, but to re file a new K1 visa or for me to go there and get married and file for a CR1. There are people that fear if they do not do a rebuttal that their loved one might never be able to receive a visa and be allowed to come to America. This is in direct contradiction to articles written by Mark Ellis and his advice on my particular case. I want to know if anyone out there has gone through this same thing. What they did and the outcome of their actions. Have any one of you been told that your loved one is now never going to be able to get a visa? Have any of you not done a rebuttal let the USCIS revoke the petition and then re-file and get a visa?

Please let us know your experiences. Thanks Jerome and Binh

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm

And when is the i-601 waiver needed if you have further info on this it would also be helpful.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

The reaction of a returned K1 differs between California and Vermont. Vermont will look at them and take an action and California will sit on them then tell you that their validity has expired and you are free to file another petition. I don't think any K1 processed in California has really been looked at, they all end up in the expired pile.

[DansJourney 0]

The reaction of a returned K1 differs between California and Vermont. Vermont will look at them and take an action and California will sit on them then tell you that their validity has expired and you are free to file another petition. I don't think any K1 processed in California has really been looked at, they all end up in the expired pile.

The next question after that is if the K1 is expired and the Consulate sends their information, will they process it at a later date and possibly cause issues if you re-file?

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Actually you have to reference the first K1 in the second one, because of the question about previous filings. You also need to ask for an wavier for filing the second visa. This causes them to touch the original visa and they will expire it at that point ( in theory they could reaffirm the first but I have not seen California do that ) They should then approve the second and send it ( maybe both packages ) off to be processed. What filing the second petition does is cause them to make a decision of the first one when they review date for the second happens. The other choice is waiting until they expire the first one. But who wants to waste another 4-6 months.

[DansJourney 0]

Actually you have to reference the first K1 in the second one, because of the question about previous filings. You also need to ask for an wavier for filing the second visa. This causes them to touch the original visa and they will expire it at that point ( in theory they could reaffirm the first but I have not seen California do that ) They should then approve the second and send it ( maybe both packages ) off to be processed. What filing the second petition does is cause them to make a decision of the first one when they review date for the second happens. The other choice is waiting until they expire the first one. But who wants to waste another 4-6 months.

For my case in particular, they scheduled the second interview on the day before expiration date. In that case, once you re-file they don't link it to the first case at all?

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Are you referring to the embassy ? I am referring to returned petitions where you have a notice from CSC that they have received it back. Once it makes it to CSC a K1 only dies. If the embassy keeps it there is still hope.

[ScottThuy 140]

For my case in particular, they scheduled the second interview on the day before expiration date. In that case, once you re-file they don't link it to the first case at all?

When you refile, its not like the first case goes away.. you have to note in the filing that you filed previously and the first casefile will come into play in the refiling... everything in the first file will be available to the CO in the refiling when it gets to the consulate, since it is all in the DoS computer system.. you can count on the fact that the issues that stopped you this time will be the first things that the CO will look to see if they are addressed in the refile... the 212 is a very broad rule which they use as an umbrella when it comes to denials as well as blue slips... as long as the denial says lack of proof of bonafide rather than for immigration purposes only, that is a huge advantage in the refiling...

Dan, since your file is still at the consulate, they can still extend the expiration date if the want to.... there is still the possibility to get it re-opened before it is sent back...

The statement that Jerome noted in the OP it means that the petition that was approved by the USCIS (the 129-F filing) will not be valid once the Consulate uses the 212 and denies the beneficiary's application for a visa... when you look at the proccess as a two part proccess 1. the petitioners request 2. the beneficiary's request, the sentence basically means if #2 is denied, then # 1 is no longer valid unless it is reaffirmed by USCIS.

[thongd4me 69]

Jerome,

Others would have more experience with AP than I, but can you think which of the 11 reasons for rejection they applied to your case?

You may still be in the game, but the question of the expiration of the valid petition is the main problem you have to deal with.

Best of luck

[Richard90027 1]

What was the nature of the fraud??

[Darnell 8,478]

Marc Ellis knows his stuff on HCMC and GUZ - so if you got advice from him, I strongly suggest you follow it.

If you need an 'academic research project' to learn exactly why your case was denied, to prepare for a non-existent 'rebuttal' - I'll suggest to you, strongly, that you'd be wasting yer time. Parts of it are useful, though, if you do learn that you were 'scant' in your original petition submittal, so you can beef it up on a particular area for the new petition submittal.

I suggest you file again, a new I-129F, quickly, but pay particular attention to 'front-loading' the petition for relationship evidence. If you don't know what that means, by all means - do some searching here, learn about 'painting a picture' inside of the casefile.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Darnell

[BinhJerome 14]

Jerome,

Others would have more experience with AP than I, but can you think which of the 11 reasons for rejection they applied to your case?

You may still be in the game, but the question of the expiration of the valid petition is the main problem you have to deal with.

Best of luck

We know we can refile, this post is just for other people, Binh and I have decided it is better for us to live in Vietnam, we were planning on it for retirement anyway, so there is no loss. The only real reason for our visa was so that she could come and go with me when I would come and visit family and friends and so she could meet my mother. With my mothers current condition of the stroke and blindness I am sure she will not want to sit on an airplane for some 24 hours. But I am still trying to help people that are on this site. Jerome

[BinhJerome 14]

Marc Ellis knows his stuff on HCMC and GUZ - so if you got advice from him, I strongly suggest you follow it.

If you need an 'academic research project' to learn exactly why your case was denied, to prepare for a non-existent 'rebuttal' - I'll suggest to you, strongly, that you'd be wasting yer time. Parts of it are useful, though, if you do learn that you were 'scant' in your original petition submittal, so you can beef it up on a particular area for the new petition submittal.

I suggest you file again, a new I-129F, quickly, but pay particular attention to 'front-loading' the petition for relationship evidence. If you don't know what that means, by all means - do some searching here, learn about 'painting a picture' inside of the casefile.

We also know Marc Ellis knows his stuff. BUT...... he has done a report stating you must confront it if you ever want your loved one to get a visa, and yet he tole my fiancee personally that our application was dead, finished, and NOT to do a rebuttal, and to either refile that day, or for me to go there and get married then come home and file a CR1 visa, this is the total oppisite of what he wrote, and people fear that since their visa has been denied that they will NEVER be able to file again. I have told them that no fraud was committed, that one person thinks that it was the nature of their visa to elude current visa laws, and that they could do a rebuttal or file right away a new case, just adding in a IMBRA waver since this would be their second visa application within 2 years, but before they refiled they needed to confront all their reasons given for their denial first, and since their case was a K1 case they could also get married and try for the CR1 instead, but these people are still worried that because of one denial that they would get an automatic denial and I am trying to reassure them that it is not the case, and that most denial letters had the one sentence in common stating the 212 article and if they all had the same sentence that Marc Ellis would/should be aware of that, and if he told me to just refile that this was an option for him as well. No sense in paying Marc Ellis another $100 for an interview to get told the same thing if enough of us have already paid him for the exact same advice.

Jerome

[Darnell 8,478]

A Report is an article on his website, speaking in general terms.

Since he told You what he told you, it was pointed, focused, and specific to YOUR case, irrespective of what he wrote on his website. If I missed this - IE - he never told YOU anything, but you've simply read it on his website, well, that's a horse of different colour, so to speak.

I would suggest that there is vast difference between a general article by him, and specific advice by him, focused on your casefile.

I suggest it strongly.

I do hope you understand the difference.

An IMBRA WAIVER is not required within 2 years - it is mentioned , but it is NOT required. 'whoever' is 'saying that' is wrong. A 're-file' for a new K-1 on the same lass, does NOT require a waiver. Usually, on a different lass, does not require a waiver. There are exceptions for 'a different lass' but never need a Waiver for The Same Lass within a 2 year period. You'll be tracked, as the petitioner, sure - there will be more FBI checks on you and her, sure - but is not a waiver required. Whoever TOLD YOU to file an IMBRA Waiver on subsequent I-129F petition filing, is wrong. I'll bet your salary on it.

So, going forward, if you've NOT engaged Marc Ellis for advice, but truly, solely, you are reading his website and learning stuff about GENERAL info ... I'll further suggest to you that at some point - yer gonna need to learn exactly why SHE was denied (poor prep on your part, scant casefile, recent divorce on your part, etc etc ) before you think to actually file a new K-1.

Personally, I'm a bit p|ssed off with what you've said, I feel strongly that you've not done enough research. I tend to have splat-ting reactions with ppl who have not done enough research. I'll molly-coddle them along for a bit - as I remember my first days as a newbie (but my research skills are different than most. Not superior, just different, no 'gotchas later' because I make sure the results are vetted )

ALSO, IMO, to moan about 100 bucks to Marc Ellis, IMO, is a sure sign you'd not be prepared for other lawyer fees. 3K for a lawyer is normal, 6K if problems - but - 100 bucks for a consult, to not even take his advice? Sorry, I bow out, I smell other problems, both past and future.

After re-reading your posts in the this thread 3 times, I have to conclude that Marc Ellis actually made time to review stuff for her casefile, and said what he said based on his review of her casefile. I hope you can understand the concept of 'dead', and (IMO) it doesn't matter if you understand his position on re-filing or not - because - HE IS, IN FACT, RIGHT. If he declared it DEAD, then it's based on his understanding of that casefile, and to make a summary statement like that, TELLS ME that your casefile was scant. You gave minimal INFO on initial I-129F submittal. Whoever was giving you advice, prior to submittal day, is deemed woe-fully inadequate to the task. IF, indeed, this was SOLELY YOU, with your own opinions, then - I suggest you learn a bit more, shift a bit, and make a different approach when you file a new I-129F. Casefile fodder is important - if you are scant on initial submittal, well, you get the result you've already gotten.

If I seem a bit miffed at your position, it's simply because I AM.

In closing - I will state - I know I've used strong language on you /with you in your thread. It wasn't for shock value - my reaction is based on how appalled I feel, based on what you've written here. I find your approach to be sophmoric, at best. If you don't understand me, if it doesn't make sense - then I suggest you print out my reply to you, study it, away from a a computer screen.

Good Luck to you, whatever you decide to do, however it turns out.

Nota Bene: I am fan of Marc Ellis - everyone that I know of, that has used him, has good results. Your Mileage Will Never Vary, should you, in fact, engage him.

[isitasham 1]

I think some of us might be confused here -- 221(a) and 221(g) are quite different reasons for denial. Some of the responses here may be referring to 221(g) which is a very broad section as someone has already suggesed here.

221(a)..... on the other hand relates to suspected fraud which could have totally different repurcussions about doing a rebuttal or not doing it. Do a search under fraud and you might be able to pick up some more informaiton.

Good Luck!

[Darnell 8,478]

sorry, missed a point.

There is no rebuttal at HCMC.

You have a chance for 'rebuttal' if the casefile is returned to USCIS, and IF you are given opportunity for 'review'.

If , during review, you are given opportunity to submit more 'stuff', then that 'stuff' is used as 'rebuttal' for HCMC decision. USCIS will re-evaluate after you submit yer 'rebuttal' packet. HCMC does not 're-evaluate' in real time - but will re-evaluate based on 1) USCIS decision , 2) stuff you submitted for rebuttal at USCIS.

Unfortunately, the turn around time for 'denial' to 'rebuttal' to '2nd interview date' will be between 16 to 39 months. Do you want to wait that long? A Re-File can get her to you, stateside, in under 11 months.

Warmest Regards.