Government fees and services - what do we 'buy'

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

oh boy....there is more to pay???

I thought $455 was enough to cover everything. they do charge quite a bit considering they take their time processing the applications. No wonder they call us "customers."

Unlike a lot of the services provided by the US government, immigration is not paid for by taxpayers. Immigrants and the people who sponsor them have to foot the bill. As a taxpayer, I think this is fair. I wouldn't want my taxes going to pay to bring somebody elses wife to the US.

This is also a good lesson in social economics. The government has been and always will be notoriously bad at providing any sort of service at a reasonable cost. They are also notoriously bad at providing those services in a reasonable time frame, and with a reasonable level of customer service. They have no competition, so they have no motive to provide good quality service at a reasonable price. You'll find the same problem with any government agency you have to deal with, but immigration services really drive home the point because you have to give them money for the privilege of being treated like #######. There is no case I can think of in the history of the United States where the government has ever provided a better quality of service for less money than private industry.

...something to ponder for people who think the government should be providing more of the services we now get from private industry...

[MikenKyhen 0]

oh boy....there is more to pay???

I thought $455 was enough to cover everything. they do charge quite a bit considering they take their time processing the applications. No wonder they call us "customers."

Unlike a lot of the services provided by the US government, immigration is not paid for by taxpayers. Immigrants and the people who sponsor them have to foot the bill. As a taxpayer, I think this is fair. I wouldn't want my taxes going to pay to bring somebody elses wife to the US.

This is also a good lesson in social economics. The government has been and always will be notoriously bad at providing any sort of service at a reasonable cost. They are also notoriously bad at providing those services in a reasonable time frame, and with a reasonable level of customer service. They have no competition, so they have no motive to provide good quality service at a reasonable price. You'll find the same problem with any government agency you have to deal with, but immigration services really drive home the point because you have to give them money for the privilege of being treated like #######. There is no case I can think of in the history of the United States where the government has ever provided a better quality of service for less money than private industry.

...something to ponder for people who think the government should be providing more of the services we now get from private industry...

[thongd4me 69]

oh boy....there is more to pay???

I thought $455 was enough to cover everything. they do charge quite a bit considering they take their time processing the applications. No wonder they call us "customers."

Unlike a lot of the services provided by the US government, immigration is not paid for by taxpayers. Immigrants and the people who sponsor them have to foot the bill. As a taxpayer, I think this is fair. I wouldn't want my taxes going to pay to bring somebody elses wife to the US.

This is also a good lesson in social economics. The government has been and always will be notoriously bad at providing any sort of service at a reasonable cost. They are also notoriously bad at providing those services in a reasonable time frame, and with a reasonable level of customer service. They have no competition, so they have no motive to provide good quality service at a reasonable price. You'll find the same problem with any government agency you have to deal with, but immigration services really drive home the point because you have to give them money for the privilege of being treated like #######. There is no case I can think of in the history of the United States where the government has ever provided a better quality of service for less money than private industry.

...something to ponder for people who think the government should be providing more of the services we now get from private industry...

I thought the extra expense was for the "terrorist checks" we do on the shoes of grannies & toddlers.

As far as government mucking things up, it's frightening to think that now the government is securitizing

100% of mortgages that have been made in 2009. It's like someone coming up to you and stuffing

$100 bills in your pocket and someone tells you "you know, eventually that has to stop" but you

don't want it to. At some point investors will be expected to step in, but with the government footing

the bill, why should they want to?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Unlike a lot of the services provided by the US government, immigration is not paid for by taxpayers. Immigrants and the people who sponsor them have to foot the bill. As a taxpayer, I think this is fair. I wouldn't want my taxes going to pay to bring somebody elses wife to the US.

This makes a lot of sense, if the government was actually bringing the foreign spouse to the USA. But last time I checked, airfare or anything else tangible isn't covered by the K-1 fees. You are really just paying the government to get out of your way.

Although it might be reasonable to expect that the average taxpayer should not be expected to pay for this service, you have to ask yourself, what do my federal income taxes pay for? Considering the federal government takes a sizable portion of your check every time you get paid before you even see the money (and that portion is larger than is written on your pay-stub), it seems unreasonable that every time you need a government service, you have to pay for it up front anyway. Why do we pay taxes?

So we can have FREE health care!

Seriously? USCIS is part of the department of Homeland Security, they get some of their funding from the money the government confiscates by force from what we earn working for our families. Some of their functions, those that benefit "all of us" are paid for with that money (this is all government theory-speak, by the way) and those functions which benefit an individual are paid for by the individual. There is no reason to "protect" the country from YOUR fiancee unless YOU bring her here, so anything you wish to do for yourself, you pay for.

Now, for medical care it is not the same. For that you will get everything for nothing, even Viagra, and they will confiscate no more taxes from your paycjheck, really! Obama said so. It will be FREE just like all the other countries (ever notice none of the US fiance's go THERE to live?)

[SMR 368]

Some of their functions, those that benefit "all of us" are paid for with that money (this is all government theory-speak, by the way) and those functions which benefit an individual are paid for by the individual.

Well, that's what I keep hearing, but when we talk about functions that benefit all of us, I have to ask what the federal government does that benefits me. National security, through the DOD and DOHS is really the only answer I have thought of. I would have liked to say interstates, but all of the interstates near my home are toll roads and thus prohibitively expensive. And anyways, I thought that is why you pay 32 cents every time you buy a gallon of gas. Really, all I do is pay the federal government money.

[DIARD 1]

Im pretty sure that the people that process your applications for immigrations are private company that is contract byt the government. So that blows the whole - government is bad out of the water on this one. It is PRIVATE industry.

Also, there are are people bringing their finances and spouses to countries with universal healthcare - they do not frequent this site though, they have their own. And Universal healthcare is not free, people are taxed for it in other countires. They just pay nothing at point of visit and hardly anything for medicine. Funny that their tax percentage in countries like the UK is lower than my total yearly healthcare bill for our crappy insurance system.

[DIARD 1]

Some of their functions, those that benefit "all of us" are paid for with that money (this is all government theory-speak, by the way) and those functions which benefit an individual are paid for by the individual.

Well, that's what I keep hearing, but when we talk about functions that benefit all of us, I have to ask what the federal government does that benefits me. National security, through the DOD and DOHS is really the only answer I have thought of. I would have liked to say interstates, but all of the interstates near my home are toll roads and thus prohibitively expensive. And anyways, I thought that is why you pay 32 cents every time you buy a gallon of gas. Really, all I do is pay the federal government money.

Your federal tax dollars go to alot of different places but for a start: A huge portion is given to the military. Also every state in the union is given fund for everything from bridges, to senior and low income housing, schools, roads etc. Also alot of farming is subsidized by your tax dollars. If it wasn't you would be paying alot more for food. There are alot more, but you get the point.

[SMR 368]

Im pretty sure that the people that process your applications for immigrations are private company that is contract byt the government. So that blows the whole - government is bad out of the water on this one. It is PRIVATE industry.

Also, there are are people bringing their finances and spouses to countries with universal healthcare - they do not frequent this site though, they have their own. And Universal healthcare is not free, people are taxed for it in other countires. They just pay nothing at point of visit and hardly anything for medicine. Funny that their tax percentage in countries like the UK is lower than my total yearly healthcare bill for our crappy insurance system.

I have never seen any evidence to indicate that the government outsources application processing. Outsourcing such a process would have serious privacy concerns. The call-center is outsourced, but the processing is done through the DOHS directly.

Even if the application process was outsourced, it wouldn't "blow the whole 'government is bad' [argument] out of the water." The point is that a lack of competition leads to lack of customer service, efficiency, and effectiveness. USCIS has no competition. Therefore, they are inefficient, backlogged, and lack anything that resembles reasonable customer service. If you don't like it, it isn't as if you can go to a competitor.

In terms of healthcare, our system has problems. But the point is, I can’t think of any government programs that are run the way I would like my healthcare to be run. Why would you expect the government to run healthcare well unless you can think of a government program that runs the way you want it to?

It’s true that the federal government spends a large portion of its budget on the military. Whether or not you think this is reasonable, you can justify that it is for everyone. Roads are paid for by gas taxes, tolls, weigh station fees, and registration fees (or at least could be. If the government is moving money around, it doesn’t affect the end number). Although farming is subsidized, you don’t understand the system if you think that prices would be higher without subsidizing. Actually, the government subsidizes farmers for not planting in order to keep prices higher. In terms of housing and education, I know I could do better if the government would just give me what they would have spent on me.

[rebeccajo 14]

Im pretty sure that the people that process your applications for immigrations are private company that is contract byt the government. So that blows the whole - government is bad out of the water on this one. It is PRIVATE industry.

Also, there are are people bringing their finances and spouses to countries with universal healthcare - they do not frequent this site though, they have their own. And Universal healthcare is not free, people are taxed for it in other countires. They just pay nothing at point of visit and hardly anything for medicine. Funny that their tax percentage in countries like the UK is lower than my total yearly healthcare bill for our crappy insurance system.

No, they are government employees.

The employees in the call center at the 1-800 number are contracted employees.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Im pretty sure that the people that process your applications for immigrations are private company that is contract byt the government. So that blows the whole - government is bad out of the water on this one. It is PRIVATE industry.

Also, there are are people bringing their finances and spouses to countries with universal healthcare - they do not frequent this site though, they have their own. And Universal healthcare is not free, people are taxed for it in other countires. They just pay nothing at point of visit and hardly anything for medicine. Funny that their tax percentage in countries like the UK is lower than my total yearly healthcare bill for our crappy insurance system.

Not true. USCIS uses SOME contracted employees under their direction. It is entirely a goverment run operation. By using contracted employees they can avoid giving those employess government benefits, like free healthcare. The issuance of visas is in no way a private operation. Governments use contractors in all aspects of government, road construction, even in delivering mail and fighting wars but the responsible party is the government that controls all of it.

You mean FREE healthcare isn't free? OH NO!!!!!!!

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Im pretty sure that the people that process your applications for immigrations are private company that is contract byt the government. So that blows the whole - government is bad out of the water on this one. It is PRIVATE industry.

Also, there are are people bringing their finances and spouses to countries with universal healthcare - they do not frequent this site though, they have their own. And Universal healthcare is not free, people are taxed for it in other countires. They just pay nothing at point of visit and hardly anything for medicine. Funny that their tax percentage in countries like the UK is lower than my total yearly healthcare bill for our crappy insurance system.

Really? Let's see, National Insurance in the UK is a 23.8% payroll tax, so that must mean you're currently spending more than 23.8% of your wages on healthcare in the US. Correct? Or were you also including the average 35% income tax and 15% VAT in the UK?

BTW, if you really are spending that much for healthcare then most of that money is tax deductible.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Im pretty sure that the people that process your applications for immigrations are private company that is contract byt the government. So that blows the whole - government is bad out of the water on this one. It is PRIVATE industry.

Also, there are are people bringing their finances and spouses to countries with universal healthcare - they do not frequent this site though, they have their own. And Universal healthcare is not free, people are taxed for it in other countires. They just pay nothing at point of visit and hardly anything for medicine. Funny that their tax percentage in countries like the UK is lower than my total yearly healthcare bill for our crappy insurance system.

You are wrong about the private employees so that is a good start. I did live in Ukraine and Canada (both have national health care stuff) In Ukraine all I can say is DON'T GET SICK!!!!!!!! And the taxes are so onnerous that most people in Ukraine have ceased to pay them by working under the table. It is estimated that 80% of the GNP is unclaimed. The country is in the bottom FIVE in the world financially and considered a major risk for a complete financail collapse. And that would the the second one in 10 years. So much for health care being necessary "for the country's" financial health

I now live 6 miles from Canada. So WHY are all the Canadians filling up our clinic's parking lots? I mean with all that FREE healthcare and wonderful service, what gives? Why is the hospital in Burlington and the one in Plattsburgh full of cars from Quebec? Very strange. I had an MRI a few months ago at Vermont Radiology. 13 cars in the lot (including mine) and 11 are from Quebec. All signage is French/English, and by far the waiting room chatter is dominantly French. WHY???????? You mean they leave that great FREE healthcare which they are taxed to death for (15% sales tax plus a maginal rate of income tax 11% higher than ours) PLUS a "Social Insurance" payroll tax, PLUS having to pay medical insurance premiums to the Province if you register a car!!!!!!! The Provincial medical insurance for each CAR now is more than $300 per year, don't even try it with a motorcycle!!! And yet they come here and pay CASH for MRIs (actually some are paid by national health care IF they have waited more than ONE YEAR!) I had my MRI two hours after the doctor ordered it. There are FOUR locations offering MRIs in Burlington VT. Population 50,000. There are TWO in Quebec, 500,000 square miles and population 7 million. Go figure.

Tell me a government program that is run the way you want your healthcare to be run.

No thanks, I think I will keep what I have and keep my tax money too.

[endoftheroad 1]

Unlike a lot of the services provided by the US government, immigration is not paid for by taxpayers. Immigrants and the people who sponsor them have to foot the bill. As a taxpayer, I think this is fair. I wouldn't want my taxes going to pay to bring somebody elses wife to the US.

Huh? TEABAGGER ALERT!

"Immigration is not paid for by taxpayers"? Are you not a tax payer? If you actually think the amount you pay for your petition etc. foots the bill then you have a bit to learn. Do you also think the amount you pay for getting a social security card foots the bill? WRONG'EM BOYO. It is a fee to supplement the costs of running the biz, all paid for by taxpayers. That's right, you "pay to bring somebody elses wife to the US". I am fine with that. They will be taxpayers too.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

This topic was split off from a post in the K-1 forum asking what the $455 fee covered. As the discussion veered off topic, I split off the discussion posts and created a separate topic for those interested in continuing the discussion in off topic and left the K-1 specific information in the K-1 forum.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Holliday 4]

Im pretty sure that the people that process your applications for immigrations are private company that is contract byt the government. So that blows the whole - government is bad out of the water on this one. It is PRIVATE industry.

Also, there are are people bringing their finances and spouses to countries with universal healthcare - they do not frequent this site though, they have their own. And Universal healthcare is not free, people are taxed for it in other countires. They just pay nothing at point of visit and hardly anything for medicine. Funny that their tax percentage in countries like the UK is lower than my total yearly healthcare bill for our crappy insurance system.

You are wrong about the private employees so that is a good start. I did live in Ukraine and Canada (both have national health care stuff) In Ukraine all I can say is DON'T GET SICK!!!!!!!! And the taxes are so onnerous that most people in Ukraine have ceased to pay them by working under the table. It is estimated that 80% of the GNP is unclaimed. The country is in the bottom FIVE in the world financially and considered a major risk for a complete financail collapse. And that would the the second one in 10 years. So much for health care being necessary "for the country's" financial health

I now live 6 miles from Canada. So WHY are all the Canadians filling up our clinic's parking lots? I mean with all that FREE healthcare and wonderful service, what gives? Why is the hospital in Burlington and the one in Plattsburgh full of cars from Quebec? Very strange. I had an MRI a few months ago at Vermont Radiology. 13 cars in the lot (including mine) and 11 are from Quebec. All signage is French/English, and by far the waiting room chatter is dominantly French. WHY???????? You mean they leave that great FREE healthcare which they are taxed to death for (15% sales tax plus a maginal rate of income tax 11% higher than ours) PLUS a "Social Insurance" payroll tax, PLUS having to pay medical insurance premiums to the Province if you register a car!!!!!!! The Provincial medical insurance for each CAR now is more than $300 per year, don't even try it with a motorcycle!!! And yet they come here and pay CASH for MRIs (actually some are paid by national health care IF they have waited more than ONE YEAR!) I had my MRI two hours after the doctor ordered it. There are FOUR locations offering MRIs in Burlington VT. Population 50,000. There are TWO in Quebec, 500,000 square miles and population 7 million. Go figure.

Tell me a government program that is run the way you want your healthcare to be run.

No thanks, I think I will keep what I have and keep my tax money too.

I know this is going to come out wrong and I'm not trying to offend anyone, but have you ever driven in Quebec? Especially in/around Montreal... I guess if you live that close to it, you probably have and so you may know what I'm talking about. It's um... a little crazy, to put it mildly. It actually doesn't surprise me at all that Quebec residents have to pay extra for medical stuff when they register a car. I mean seriously, the health risks kinda skyrocket there because (many) drivers are frickin INSANE! Perhaps it's not necessarily fair to the um... 'safer' drivers, but it doesn't surprise me.

I'm not even touching the rest of the health care debate.